[Grovenet] "It's time we win the war on terror"

[Eric Canon]

I completely agree that we bear responsibility
for what happens next in Iraq, not because Osama
says otherwise and we need to disprove his
statement (and I do not suggest that is your
thinking either, Ron), but because we owe it to
the Iraqi people and to ourselves. However,
consistent with doing the right thing is the
reality, which we need to recognize, that we are
not in a position to bring peace or stability to
Iraq ourselves. Our very presence ignites a
reaction from the Muslim world. So, IMHO, it must
*not* be us.

But who? We are witnessing in Lebanon that the
rest of the world has little interest in sending
troops into a situation which is as inflamed as
the entire middle east. This is another result of
the failed Bush policy of going it alone (or
siding with Israel). Now we ARE alone!

The answer, still, is to bring in an outside
force, other than us, to restore order. The real
question, and the problem, is, who? 

It is a very bleak situation, to say the least.

--- Ron D'Eau Claire <rondec at easystreet.com>
wrote:

> Of course many Iraqis want us out. We've
> destroyed the order and society
> they had under Saddam. In spite of Saddam's
> atrocities, the vast majority of
> Iraqi citizens lived in peace and security. 
> 
> Now we've destroyed that government and left
> the country wide open to every
> thug and opportunist in the middle east. They
> all want to keep the chaos
> going until they complete their rape of the
> country and steal everything of
> value. Then they'll gladly leave a destitute
> and destroyed nation for
> someone else to pick its bones. 
> 
> Africa has endless examples of how that works. 
> 
> So what is our responsibility to Iraq, now that
> we destroyed the government
> that kept most Iraqis safe and prosperous? 
> 
> Already we've allowed Iraq's irreplaceable
> national treasures to be looted. 
> 
> Already we've allowed millions to lose their
> homes and force them to
> struggle through each day in filth and chaos
> with little electricity, food
> or clean water, knowing that their lives may
> end in an explosion or gunfire
> at any moment. 
> 
> Already we've allowed tens of thousands, at
> least, to die horrible deaths. 
> 
> Bin Ladin claimed that he was justified in
> attacking us because he said that
> we Americans are amoral despoilers of other
> nations; that we manipulate
> others for our own ends, even destroying
> societies and killing peaceful
> citizens to serve our selfish needs; that we
> demonstrate a complete
> disregard for the value of human life that is
> not American life. 
> 
> By leaving now, will we not demonstrate that
> Bin Ladin was right? 
> 
> Yet, I suspect we will. I'm as powerless to
> change that as the typical Iraqi
> citizen is powerless to stop the bombs and
> gunfire. Any "Tough Love" we try
> against the struggling people of Iraq won't be
> any more welcome or effective
> than Bin Ladin's "Tough Love" on 9/11 was for
> us. 
> 
> Remember, the Iraqis were never a threat. Only
> we Americans said they were. 
> 
> The Iraqis never made any big promises about a
> rosy tomorrow. We Americans
> made that promise when we invaded their country
> and destroyed their
> government. 
> 
> Ron D'Eau Claire 
> 
> 
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com
> [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
> Behalf Of allnutt
> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 11:00 AM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] "It's time we win the
> war on terror"
> 
> 
> A little tough love in Iraq could go a long
> way.
> As long as we are there doing their security
> work for them they have no need
> 
> to stand up.
> And bush has said that as long as he is
> president we will stay there. So the
> Iraqi leaders have 2 more years of a free ride
> and they know it.
> 
> Again bush has it backwards. How obvious is it
> that they won't stand up 
> until we stand down?
> Why is he making it easy for them to not stand
> up?
> 
> The people of Iraq want us out. But the
> leadership wants us to stay. Cheaper
> for them and they get to blame us for anything
> that goes wrong. Heck of a
> deal for them. Not such a good deal for us.
> 
> 
> Katie
> 
> 
> 
> 
> ----- Original Message ----- 
> From: "Eric Canon" <canonmetals at yahoo.com>
> To: "grovenet" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, August 23, 2006 8:27 AM
> Subject: [Grovenet] "It's time we win the war
> on terror"
> 
> 
> > Quote from Sen. John McCain:
> >
> > "I think one of the biggest mistakes we made
> was underestimating the
> > size of the task and the sacrifices that
> would be required," McCain 
> > said. "Stuff happens, mission accomplished,
> last
> > throes, a few dead-enders. I'm just more
> familiar
> > with those statements than anyone else
> because it
> > grieves me so much that we had not told the
> > American people how tough and difficult this
> task
> > would be."
> >
> > There were many of us on this list who
> predicted
> > that the Bush invasion of Iraq would be a
> > disaster. It wasn't exactly rocket science,
> and
> > we were not unique. We felt, and others felt,
> the
> > appropriate response to terrorism was a
> police
> > action coordinated with the rest of the
> world.
> > After 9/11, our country had the support of
> the
> > rest of the world, which increased the
> prospects
> > that confronting terrorism would be
> successful.
> >
> > Bush had other ideas.
> >
> > John McCain supported the invasion. And, had
> we
> > applied appropriate numbers and a winning
> > strategy, we might have been able to pull it
> off.
> > Had Bush been straight with the American
> people,
> > and not focused so much on concealing his
> actions
> > and pretending it was "some kind of day at
> the
> > beach" (quoting McCain again), transforming
> Iraq
> > into a free and responsible nation might have
> > been achievable (I doubt it, but who's to
> say?).
> > Again, Bush and his team had other ideas.
> >
> > Here is what McCain is saying now:
> >
> > http://tinyurl.com/klh8h
> >
> > And here is Harry Reid with another idea:
> >
> > Senate Democrats, meanwhile, said Tuesday
> that
> > the best way to encourage Iraqis to get their
> > political house in order is to begin a phased
> > withdrawal from Iraq by the end of this year.
> > Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan, top Democrat on
> the
> > Armed Services Committee, said the longer the
> > U.S. stays the course in Iraq, "the weaker
> we're
> > going to be in the war on terrorism."
> >
> > Minority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., said he
> was
> > glad to hear McCain has realized "we need
> more
> > than tough talk" on Iraq.
> >
> > "It's time we win the war on terror," said
> Reid.
> > "To do that we must change the course in
> Iraq."
> >
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