[Grovenet] A little more inconvenient truth . . .

[Phoenixacm at aol.com]

David,

You are right, we are talking about different things.   I am not trying to 
persuade anyone of anything.   My concern is those who care about the issue but 
don't know what to do, or think that they can't do anything or just feel so 
overwhelmed that they don't know where to start.   It's what Al Gore called 
going from denial to despair without pausing to take any action.   My feeling is 
that there are a lot of people out there taking action and feeling like they 
are the only ones.   Those lonely actions sometimes don't last long if you think 
you are the only one who cares.   

Your first email seemed to be saying that we were copping out if we form a 
separate group and we should stay involved in the discussion on Grovenet.   
Obviously, I disagree.

Jane B-P


> > David,
> >
> > You are overlooking several facts.
> > 1 - None of us is an island.   A 100% change in one person 
> > inevitably influences others.
> > 2 - A 100% change today is not a 100% change tomorrow.   New 
> > problems and new solutions continue to be created.   If I am doing 
> > everything I can today, that won't be everything I can tomorrow, or 
> > next month, or next year.
> > 3 - My personal opinion is that most people on Grovenet don't 
> > influence each other.   (Yes, I know I'm going to be flamed for 
> > that one.)   I see the same arguments happening day after day, 
> > month after month.   I see people becoming more entrenched, not 
> > influencing each other.   I also see people being hostile, vicious 
> > and snotty to each other.   I only read about 5% of what is posted 
> > in an attempt to minimize my exposure to snottiness.   What makes 
> > you think that those mythological lurkers are reading any more than 
> > I am?
> >
> > Jane B-P
> 
> 
> We are coming at this from different directions, which is not a 
> surprise.
> 
> Forming a group to provide positive reinforcement is a good 
> approach.  It works well in a variety of situations.  And I expect 
> that it would help the members reduce their impact upon the 
> environment and strengthen their understanding of social issues.
> 
> I am thinking that, as you say, none of us is an island.  I don't 
> think that there is such a thing as "personal salvation" in this 
> global issue.  We share the same boat.
> 
> If I modify my habits to conserve 100 kilowatts per month that would 
> be a big deal for me.  If others increase their consumption by a 
> similar amount, we haven't really gained much.  I agree that 
> leadership by example is preferred over leadership by coercion.  But, 
> somewhere the leaders must learn the skills necessary to communicate 
> their methods for others to follow, and they must learn some method 
> to communicate the rationale so others will want to  follow their 
> actions.  That means that the "leaders" must be in contact with, and 
> learn the language of the rest of the population.  Otherwise they 
> just appear to be "elite" and they may walk alone.
> 
> That is my understanding.  I do not claim to have the skills needed 
> to communicate with those who disagree with me.  I keep trying to 
> engage them in conversation so that I may learn their objections and 
> their reasons for holding them.  I keep trying to address their 
> objections by going to their reasons.  In the process, I fail often.  
> Possibly most of the time.  I lay that failure upon my lack of 
> understanding, and I don't believe that I will learn more of the 
> alternatives by distancing myself from them.  I understand that 
> others do not feel that way.
> 
> It might be humorous, but most cooks know that you can raise the 
> temperature faster in a pot by putting a lid on it.  Yet, they don't 
> apply the same understanding to adding green house gasses to the 
> atmosphere.
> 
> David
>