[Grovenet] Avoiding WAR (WAS: draft vs. volunteer)

[Ron D'Eau Claire]

Agreed. And that seems to be the problem. Once we 'win' a peace through
armed combat, we're never able to maintain it long enough for the hatred and
distrust to die out. It takes generations. In the meantime, another war
ensues. 

I wonder if the real first question needs to be, "Is it possible to have a
sovereign state without armed combat or the threat of armed combat?" 

If the answer is "no", then the next question might be "How can human beings
live in security and peace without a sovereign state to protect them?" 

Ron D'Eau Claire 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Ed Davie
Sent: Monday, November 27, 2006 10:44 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Avoiding WAR (WAS: draft vs. volunteer)


We'll never know, of course. To utilize any 
non-violent methods consideration must be given 
long before the hostilities begin. Once things 
reach that point it's obviously too late for 
negotiation or anything like it.
Presumably, something could have been worked out 
if proper communication had taken place.
Diplomacy frequently is cut off way too soon in 
any potential conflict.
Ed

  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ron D'Eau Claire
  To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
  Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 11:16 PM
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Avoiding WAR (WAS: draft 
vs. volunteer)


  Then may I ask what the Quaker response to Pearl 
Harbor would have been?

  One of the problems of having a "country" is 
that we must be prepared to
  defend it if we want to keep it. Otherwise, why 
bother? We bother to have a
  country so we can have things like the Bill of 
Rights. But if we don't
  defend our country, the Bill of Rights is soon 
gone. People who work in the
  governments of countries have the primary 
responsibility of protecting that
  government and things like the Bill of Rights no 
matter the cost. That's why
  we fought WWII.

  Is it possible to live as "free" men and women 
without those protections or
  is the answer to submit to the slavery of 
whomever wants to run the show?

  It's a conundrum for which I have no answer. I'm 
really interested in
  whether anyone does.

  Ron D'Eau Claire

  -----Original Message-----
  From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com 
[mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
  Behalf Of Ed Davie
  Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 9:25 PM
  To: Forest Grove local interests list
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Avoiding WAR (WAS: draft 
vs. volunteer)


  Quakers have had a non-violent training program
  for many years, at least back in New York.
  I suspect it exists around here too although I
  haven't seen any evidence of it.
  It starts in the schools and also in the 
prisons.
  It has been very effective on a limited scale. 
But
  of course, not something governments are willing
  to look at closely. And not easily implemented,
  I'm afraid.
  I'm sure the details are available online,
  probably www.nyym.org.
  Ed
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Ron D'Eau Claire
    To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
    Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 7:30 PM
    Subject: [Grovenet] Avoiding WAR (WAS: draft 
vs.
  volunteer)


    What are those options and now might they be
  implemented?

    Yes, I am a strong believer in a world
  government. Countries like ours (and
    most, actually) live with relative internal
  peace because all the citizens
    accept control by the state in a great many
  things. At least it's been a
    century and a half since we fought a war among
  ourselves and it's been much,
    much longer for many other countries.

    It would seem that moving that model up to a
  global level would produce the
    same results.

    Ron D'Eau Claire

    -----Original Message-----
    From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com
  [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
    Behalf Of Ed Davie
    Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 7:21 PM
    To: Forest Grove local interests list
    Subject: Re: [Grovenet] draft vs. volunteer


    For many years, I have believed that a "World
    Government" would solve a lot of problems.
    Very difficult to attain, I'm sure.
    "National Sovereignty" certainly is a problem
    world wide!

    Are there other options to our present
  situation?
    The Quakers and many others believe so.
    As we say, "War is not the answer!"
    Ed



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