[Grovenet] Answer on 42.

Wed Oct 25 09:37:42 PDT 2006

Is it greedy for a worker to want to be paid on payday? 

Is it greedy for a worker to work where he/she gets paid the most for
his/her time and effort?

If so, then, yes, corporations, all successful businesses, are greedy by
that definition. They want to paid for their work. 

It's what makes our country work.

Ron D'Eau Claire 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Geri
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 8:48 AM
To: dale.wiley at netzero.com; Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Answer on 42.

Dale said: "Huh ???? Rules to prevent business's from being
  self defeating ??"

Or, Ron said: " ... step in with rules any time the drive for
  more customers and better profits causes any business to
  make choices that are self-defeating ..."

We need to protect businesses from their own greed?

I don't understand that either, Dale, unless we consider America
  should be a corporatocracy!  "We the People" should be a higher
  priority than "We a corporation."  I don't think our constitutional
  priorities are to keep businesses from being self-defeating no
  matter the cost/damage to citizens.

Possibly I've misunderstood what Ron meant.

Geri

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Dale Wiley" <dale.wiley at netzero.com>
To: "'Forest Grove local interests list'" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Wednesday, October 25, 2006 7:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Answer on 42.

: Huh ???? Rules to prevent business's from being self defeating ?? I guess
I
: need to understand what you mean by self defeating....
: 
: excluding or penalizing certain ethnic or economic groups ?? Happens every
: day in business.. choices by every business based upon decision based on
: data....
: 
: 
: 
: 
: We need to step in with rules any time the drive for more customers and
: better profits causes any business to make choices that are self-defeating
: over time or which do something else we consider unacceptable in our
: society, including excluding or penalizing certain ethnic or economic
: groups. I don't see any evidence of that happening here.
: 
: Ron D'Eau Claire
: 
: 
: -----Original Message-----
: From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
: Behalf Of allnutt
: Sent: Tuesday, October 24, 2006 5:22 PM
: To: Forest Grove local interests list
: Subject: [Grovenet] Answer on 42.
: 
: 
: I guess I have to say thanks to Jeff for making me think about measure 42.
: It prompted me to ask around and I think I found a person who actually has
: good information.  He has worked  on consumer advocacy issues and knows a
: lot about the history of this and how it came  to be an initiative.
: 
: Remember that it is already on the books that insurance companies can't
: raise your rates or drop your coverage base on a change in your credit
: report.  When that was originally going through the legislature it
actually
: included the ban on using credit ratings as part of the initial rate
setting
: process.  The bill had quite a bit of bipartisan support and passed one of
: the chambers down in Salem but got stalled in the other.  The compromise
: process wound up getting the bill passed by removing the part dealing with
: setting initial rates. That relieves my worry that 42 was written with a
: Sizemore crayon.  It has had more evaluation and thought behind it than
: Sizemore's typical measures so it carries very little risk of those pesky
: unintended consequences.
: 
: And the evidence during the initial hearings for the bill had quite a bit
of
: testimony concerning the statistics of whether poor credit is an accurate
: predictor of risk.  There is an element of correlation but not much
support
: for any cause and effect.  And on top of that, other factors that also
have
: a high correlation with credit ratings are already used in the formulas
that
: sets initial insurance rates.  (Example; Age is also a factor in setting
: rates, but it correlates with credit rating too.  People's credit rating
: tends to get better as they get older, get jobs, get better jobs, etc.
And
: there are others too.)  So by using straight credit ratings to set how
much
: you pay, the effect is to multiply the number of times it is counted.
: 
: Insurance only works when the pools are big enough to spread out real
risk.
: By using credit risk multiple times and straight up, it winds up being a
: powerful tool to be discriminatory and to cherry pick the best customers
and
: leave the remaining worthy but poorer insurance seekers in a bind.  Since
: insurance is required by law, for automobile drivers at least, this gives
: some balance to the little guys to counter act the fact that everyone is
: required to buy it and helps even the playing field.
: 
: So, the bottom line for me is: Insurance companies already are using data
: that is correlated to credit rating to set your rates, this measure
doesn't
: have the risks of most initiatives for poor writing, and it is essentially
: fair.  So thanks Jeff for bringing it up.  I was undecided before but now
I
: support it.
: 
: Of course he explaine it much better than I did and I am trying to
summarize
: here but if you need to know more contact me off list.
: 
: Katie
: _______________________________________________
: GroveNet mailing list
: GroveNet at rdrop.com http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
: 
: 
: _______________________________________________
: GroveNet mailing list
: GroveNet at rdrop.com
: http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
: 
: _______________________________________________
: GroveNet mailing list
: GroveNet at rdrop.com
: http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet