[Grovenet] 9/11

[Meredith Bliss]

Ron, "walking away" is not a solution to anything. A superficial reading of 
the history of the past century should be enough to demonstrate that the 
major wars were the result of an attempt to marginalize nations or groups. 
WWII resulted from the bankrupting of Germany in retaliation for WWI, and 
Japan entered because we attempted to marginalize them in the land grab by 
the colonial powers after WWI. We attempted to marginalize the Chinese 
through their allies in Korea. We attempted to marginalize the nationalistic 
forces in Cuba and Vietnam to great success. 

As long as we attempt to marginalize muslim countries, we will probably 
experience the same. When nations have a place at the table and something to 
lose, they cease acting out of desperation. 

There is a lot of babble about supporting the Palestinians, and some would say 
that a solution to their plight is essential, but I'm skeptical about that. 
Support for the Palestinians certainly hasn't been expressed by their richer 
neighbors in more than token financial support, nor have the rich muslim 
countries shown tremendous generosity towards the muslim tsunami, earthquake, 
or war victims in other countries, despite charity being one of the "five 
pillars of islam." But support for terrorists provides an easy way for those 
countries to exert pressure on the West, and level the playing field 
economically.

On Wednesday 13 September 2006 13:01, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> Walking away is a tactic.
>
> We used that tactic in Vietnam.
>
> I wonder if we'd be allowed to use it now? That was my question.
>
> The Vietnamese just wanted us to get out of their country. Once we left,
> they were happy.
>
> The radical Islamic forces have said clearly that they something more than
> for us than to leave their countries. They want America crippled so badly
> it becomes a minor, impotent power or, best in their view, all non-Muslim
> Americans dead.
>
> That's what they've been saying. I'm inclined to believe them.
>
> I heard an interesting report today from England. It seems that every one
> of the attempted terrorism attacks in recent months have been traced to one
> country. It's clear to the British that country has become Al Qaeda's new
> home state where they train and plan attacks without interference. That
> country is our supposed ally Pakistan. I have to wonder what's really going
> on in the Pakistani government to allow such widespread activity, not way
> up in the rugged mountains, but in the cities and other urban areas as well
> where the British have traced the terrorists. Recent investigations showed
> that known wanted terrorists were photographed as they passed through
> customs at major airports re-entering the country, identified positively,
> and released into Pakistan without being detained.
>
> It's also worth remembering that Pakistan is a nuclear power: they are a
> Muslim state that already has atomic bombs.
>
> Ron D'Eau Claire
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
> Behalf Of Eric Canon
> Sent: Wednesday, September 13, 2006 12:33 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] 9/11
>
>
>
>
> --- Ron D'Eau Claire <rondec at easystreet.com>
>
> wrote:
> > Well put, I think. Thank you Mike.
> >
> > It makes me wonder. If we Americans do as we've
> > done before and simply walk
> > away, can we? Will the terrorists leave us
> > alone then or will they follow us
> > back to North America?
> >
> > Ron D'Eau Claire
>
> Walk away? Or change tactics.
>
> The invasion of Afghanistan was right on the
> mark. We were justified, and the rest of the
> world saw it clearly.
>
> What we did then, in the face of success, was to
> invade Iraq. That was wrong, unlawful, and
> utterly stupid. Had we not done that, but,
> instead, used police action to finish the clean
> up of Al Quita, the world would be a very
> different place today. We would be stronger
> economically and militarily. We would not have
> the indelible stair of Iraq on our flag.
>
> Police action is still the best means to combat
> Bin Laden et al. Ed's post demonstrates that. The
> army is the wrong tool for many reasons.
>
> The difficult part now is how to get "back
> there", to the time before we invaded Iraq.
> That's a very tough thing to do.
>
> We bear a responsibility to the Iraqi people for
> what we've done to their country and culture.
> They are in virtual civil war right now. Much of
> that is our fault.
>
> I'm reminded, though, of a well meaning parent
> who has a teen child who is acting out. Perhaps
> the parent bears some responsibility for where
> this child is, perhaps not. But, at that point,
> when the child is being impossible, what are the
> options for the parent to help that child? Not
> many.
>
> You have heard of the term "tough love". The
> quickest way to get a child "re-booted" is to
> allow the consequences of bad behavior to act in
> and of themselves to teach the child the
> realities of his/her actions. It can be perilous,
> but locking him/her in the attic, or buying
> him/her off somehow will not work for long.
> Somehow, the child has to figure things and the
> parent is in no position to order or explain at
> that point.
>
> In Iraq right now there are no easy answers. For
> example, I see that the NATO appeal for more
> troops for Afghanistan has gone unanswered. I
> have advocated that the world send troops to Iraq
> to restore order and that we get out. But no one
> would come at this point. Who would want to come
> to Iraq to insure order? The only group I can
> think of who would do that: Muslim
> fundamentalists. Yuk!
>
> Staying with the status quo because there is no
> other option for order is hardly wise or
> responsible. Why would anyone want to stay where
> we are right now? We act as a catalyst to
> violence as long as we are in Iraq. We are the
> red flag waved in the face of the bull. It was a
> stupid strategy when we went in, and it's even
> more stupid now. This is where the policies of
> George W Bush have led us. We need a new plan.
>
> We need to leave. It's our best and perhaps our
> only option right now. _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> GroveNet mailing list
> GroveNet at rdrop.com
> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

-- 
----------------------------------------
Just happy to be here, but speaking 
only for myself!
Meredith Bliss --- www.rdrop.com/~mbliss
----------------------------------------