[Grovenet] Fear and Truth

[Meredith Bliss]

Indeed, I think Ron has a very distorted view of those times. Being employed 
by a defense contractor may have colored his vision. He seems unaware that 
the vast majority of protesters, myself among them, were attempting to 
exercise their right "peacefully to assemble," but were more often than not 
denied the opportunity, and when they did, were often joined by agents of the 
opposition or other parties who were determined to make things ugly. They 
were usually pretty easy to spot, but hard to deal with. Most of those killed 
at Kent State were, as I recall, bystanders at that. To tar them as 
"criminals intent on murder" is an incredible slander. 

And he seems strangely unaware that opposition to that war grew steadily until 
our withdrawal. LBJ's problem was with members of his own party, having 
alienated the Southern Democrats with the Civil Rights Act and the NE liberal 
Democrats with his war. But his war policies were expanded and carried 
forward by the Nixon administration in the face of growing opposition in the 
country as a whole. And lest we forget, it was also the Nixon administration 
that enlisted the aid of the FBI and IRS to specifically target political 
opponents on his "enemies list." So, yes, Margaret, I'm sorry to say that 
there are plenty of these "radicals" and "idiots" at all levels of our 
society.

On Saturday 16 September 2006 17:45, Ed Davie wrote:
> That's certainly a different Kent State than I
> remember!
> Ed
>
>   ----- Original Message -----
>   From: Ron D'Eau Claire
>   To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
>   Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 5:39 PM
>   Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Fear and Truth
>
>
>   Of course I wasn't singling out one group of
> idiots. They were one tiny mob
>   in a country besieged by mobs in those years.
> That was my point.
>
>   I'm disturbed that your message seems to suggest
> that the Kent State
>   students weren't radicals. I don't know. I only
> know they were stupid idiots
>   or criminals intent on murder. I don't know
> which.
>
>   When one group of people attacks another with
> deadly force, as the mob of
>   students throwing rocks and bottles at the
> National Guard at Kent State did,
>   it's sheer lunacy to do that to people with
> weapons and not expect their
>   intended victims to use them.
>
>   What the Kent State students did was no
> different than jumping in front of a
>   train or a car on the highway. Instead of merely
> taking their own lives
>   through stupidity, they forced innocent men,
> fathers, and husbands, to
>   become their killers. Those men were there only
> because the students refused
>   to demonstrate under the law. It was the
> students asking for violence.
>
>   And then other people managed to turn the whole
> thing inside out and blame
>   the defenders who were sent there under orders.
>
>   By the same thinking, we would not allow our
> soldiers in Iraq to shoot back
>   when attacked. That's lunacy. Rocks and bottles
> will kill, especially when
>   it's a barrage from a gang. Anyone smart enough
> to go to college ought to
>   understand that. The guardsmen did. They were
> under orders to hold their
>   ground. We still don't know exactly how the
> shooting started, but we
>   certainly know why. The Guardsmen were doing
> their job in the face of a mob
>   of deadly idiots.
>
>   Like the soldiers in Iraq, the fact that the
> National Guard shot people
>   wasn't their fault. It was those who created the
> confrontation, and that
>   responsibility rests with the students who were
> throwing the rocks and
>   bottles.
>
>   Ron D'Eau Claire
>
>
>
>
>   -----Original Message-----
>   From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com
> [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
>   Behalf Of Eric Canon
>   Sent: Saturday, September 16, 2006 5:14 PM
>   To: Forest Grove local interests list
>   Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Fear and Truth
>
>
>   --- Ron D'Eau Claire <rondec at easystreet.com>
>
>   wrote:
>   > I doubt if there's a single Muslim state that
>   > isn't dominated by radicals,
>   > just as the US was dominated (briefly) during
>   > the latter stages of the
>   > Vietnam war by demonstrators and radicals
>   > demanding our government bend to
>   > their wishes.
>
>   I think you used the wrong term here, Ron. Were
>   the students shot at Kent State radicals? I
>   remember vast hoards of fed up people marching
> in
>   the streets, and it got especially bad during
>   Nixon's time, not that Chicago during the D
>   convention was a picnic. Certainly there were a
>   lot of people feeling completely left out and
>   ignored and reviled by what was happening in
> Viet
>   Nam. But who are you calling radical? Nixon was
>   pretty radical to me!
>
>   I agree with you that I never dreamed it could
> be
>   worse than that. It is far worse now. And the
>   worst part is that everyone is so quiet about
>   what this president is doing.
>
>   I'm hoping that this torture mutiny occurring in
>   the Senate right now will be to Bush what Sam
>   Ervin was to Nixon, and (his name escapes me)
> was
>   to Joseph McCarthy when he asked him, "Senator,
>   have you no shame?" Down they went.
>
>   I've said it before: Bush needs to be locked up,
>   and he's fearful of it, too. That's why he's
>   lobbing so hard for laws that would sanction
> what
>   he has created.
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-- 
----------------------------------------
Just happy to be here, but speaking 
only for myself!
Meredith Bliss --- www.rdrop.com/~mbliss
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