[Grovenet] Senseless violence

Wed Apr 18 09:31:50 PDT 2007

Yes, we've "brainwashed" a generation - maybe more!

People don't have to be 'bred' to behave a certain way. We're far more
susceptible to environment and training: "Brainwashing" if you will. 

There's an argument going on in a parking lot. Two guys are going at it,
screaming at teach other. A third person decides that is not acceptable and
decides to "break it up", so he joins in the fray, but starts throwing
punches. Now it's three guys fighting viciously. 

That's what we did by going into Iraq. We said Saddam was an unacceptable
leader. Actually, many countries agreed with us. But we went one step
further. We went in with guns blazing and bombs falling to "fix" the
problem.

When we did that we took on all of Iraq's problems as our problems to be
fixed at the point of a gun. 

Then our Commander in Chief pranced across the deck of that carrier -- that
huge symbol of American armed force --  and standing in front of the
American flag -- OUR flag -- he said to the terrorists, insurgents and
disgruntled "bring 'em on!" 

They came on. We have consistently denied our military the resources needed
to deal with it. We've denied them an effective Commander in Chief,
returning the same man to the oval office after his debacle was clear to
all. That C-in-C has denied the military the resources they needed, and it's
pretty clear that had he asked for the millions of men in uniform -- and a
general military draft to build up the armed forces as a "war" President
would be expected to do -- the American people would have revolted. 

So we've forced or Armed Forces to fail again. We've killed thousands of our
own, and many more thousands of others, in our stupidity and disregard for
reality.

There's a reason civilized people use diplomacy. It's not quick. It's
frustrating. But it can avoids starting a vicious fight. And, if it fails,
we've lost nothing. I believe that using force always must be the last
resort. Withholding force while trying every other means to settle an issue
is not a sign of weakness, it's a strength. Only the weak lash out first.
Like America did in Iraq. 

It's little wonder one Italian who heard about the massacre yesterday said,
"..it's as American as apple pie..." 

Ron D'Eau Claire 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Steven
Sent: Wednesday, April 18, 2007 8:36 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Senseless violence

Will the violence in the Middle East stop if we leave there? Certainly 
we did not directly cause these deaths.
Did the deaths occur because we ARE in the Middle East?
I don't like any thought of minimizing the tragedy of deaths on the 
campus or any country.

We can breed animals to be gentle, spotted, mean, big and so on. I think 
that we can also do that to humans.
We need to think beyond just video games. What about people brought up 
under a dictator or communism?
If you are one who stands up, you're cut down. The only ones left to 
breed are the lemmings.
How many years would you have to have a society before there would be no 
one to stand up and speak out?

Go to the video rental store. Just look at the pictures on the covers. 
How many moves have
someone pointing a gun. How many have a woman's leg. Many have both. We 
have
brainwashed a generation that this is normal. They've had children.

Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> Yes - and over 100 more died yesterday in Baghdad alone.
>
> Our domestic tragedy is likely to spawn a whole new thrust to outlaw 
> guns. I'm not a gun enthusiast nor am I a gun owner. I'm convinced 
> that focusing on guns won't do any more to make our schools and towns 
> safer than withdrawing from Iraq will make America safer.
>
> We had some highly disturbed kids in High School and College when I 
> was in school. Sometimes they'd even suicide. What they didn't do was 
> get a gun, chain doors closed and kill everyone they could. The 
> pro-gun people have a point when they say that guns don't kill; people 
> kill.
>
> I think it's way past time we take a long, hard look at our society 
> and ask why we teach that violence and murder is "acceptable". We do 
> it in the games we give our children, in our stories and in our 
> affairs with other people, like Iraq.
>
> We have done just that for decades, all while decrying any idea of 
> compulsory military service as something that would debase our 
> children.
>
> Clearly, something has gone terribly wrong in American society. Like 
> Iraq, it won't get better doing the same thing we've been doing.
>
> I'm sure we'll soon leave Iraq. Not because we were successful, but 
> because we were not. Because we are incompetent and powerless to 
> succeed there. Because we Americans are the author of bloodshed, 
> violence and terror on a scale that makes freedom-loving, sensitive 
> people cry out in anguish.
>
> Can we do better here at home?
>
> Will we?
>
> Ron D'Eau Claire
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] 
> On Behalf Of David Morelli
> Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:54 PM
> To: grovenet
> Subject: [Grovenet] Senseless violence
>
>
> We had a day of senseless violence, and our thoughts go out to the
> survivors and the families of more than 30 people who died at  
> Virginia Tech.
>
> Those unnecessary deaths of innocent people by a psychopath in the US
> has pushed out of the news other unnecessary deaths in other countries.
>
> In a county of 300 million, a day with 30+ violent deaths in one
> incident is sufficient to shake us.
>
> In Iraq, a country of 27 million, they encounter more than 30 violent
> deaths from car bombs, suicide bombs, and death squads on an average  
> day.
>
> 4 years, 60,000+ reported unnecessary, violent civilian deaths due to
> the war in Iraq.  Possibly 10x that number in excess deaths  
> attributed to the war and failure of the public systems.
>
> Who died?
> http://www.iraqbodycount.net/names.php
>
> David
>
>
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