[Grovenet] A Different Christmas Poem

Fri Dec 14 21:00:19 PST 2007

We do have contingencies for a close election. It goes to congress. I forget
the actual process. But I would have loved to see it to fruition instead of
the Florida BS. Gore should have followed the constitution.

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
Behalf Of Ron D'Eau Claire
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 11:50 AM
To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A Different Christmas Poem

Ha, ha!!!

My disagreement is only that I don't think that we'd ever be sure who won
in
2000, no matter how often the votes were counted. It seemed pretty clear
to
me that the vote was closer than the margin of error in the counting
system,
so we could have spent the next four years counting ballots.

It's quite possible if we had spent the next four years counting ballots
we'd have been far better off but that wasn't an option. I have no doubt
there was huge behind-the-scenes pressure.

If it had gone on, it's quite possible we'd have seen a similar mess in
2004.

That's why I supported changes to improve the accuracy of the vote and, if
it's still too close to call clearly, do something such as have a run-off
to
allow people to vote again.

Maybe cliff-hanger runoffs would be the way to get people to turn out and
vote!

Ron D'Eau Claire

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Geri
Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 10:52 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A Different Christmas Poem

Ron said: "Frankly, I'm completely fed up with both
parties."  Me, too, Ron -- I think a lot of folks are --
& am also "proud to be an independent," neither Dem
nor Repub.  For many years now, I have merely been
way more repulsed by the behavior of the Repugnicans.

BTW, I really believe both elections (2000 - thanks,
Florida, & 2004 - thanks, Ohio and others) were stolen.
In 2000 the Bush crime family including Rove were afraid
to get to a final recount, and the Fla. Supremes (friends
of Jeb and Dad) weighed in with the stupid statement
or their decision that W. "could suffer irreparable harm!"
if the vote recount was allowed to continue.  Bizarre.

For 2004, an excellent article is here: http://tinyurl.com/ogrhq .

If you ever have the chance to see the documentary
"Hacking Democracy" it's worth watching ... and makes
one think.

Ron said: "The Republican party is the party of fiscal conservatism."
Well,
it used to be!  Or at least that has traditionally been their excuse for
not
caring for citizenry much beyond their own "set."  Now, this Repub prez
and
the formerly Repub Congress have sky- rocketed the US into national debt
beyond anything we've ever seen.

Ron said: "... blue stubborn jackasses and red obese self-centered red
pachyderms ..."  Good one, Ron.  :) The actual animals would be offended
by
the current parties being represented by them.  ;)

Geri

----- Original Message -----
From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <ron at cobi.biz>
To: "'Forest Grove local interests list'" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 7:51 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A Different Christmas Poem

>I agree, Geri, with everything but the "stolen election".
>
> Yes, it's possible the first election should have been decided
> differently,
> but:
>
> 1) It was close enough to be swung the way it went. That means that,
> within a tiny percentage, half of the American voters wanted President
> Bush in office.
>
> 2) We had another election since and, again, the American voters chose
> President Bush. This time they knew what he was doing and they
> approved it!
>
> The "Republicrazies" are trying to suggest the Iraq war was the
> invention of the Congress, not the President.
>
> I'm hearing more often from "Democrazies" that somehow the Republicans
> stole two elections from the American people.
>
> Neither is true. If the Dems want to win an election, WIN it! Don't
> say, "Gee we had 50.00000000000001% of the vote, we think, so we
> should have won!"
>
> After the first election, there was public sentiment toward finding
> better ways to be sure who won a close election. NOTHING substantive
> has been done about that. The American public is quite willing to
> continue on much the way we always have.
>
> Frankly, I'm completely fed up with both parties. They have good
> symbols: blue stubborn jackasses and red obese self-centered red
> pachyderms. It's amazing how many people identify with one or the
> other.
>
> Ron (who is proud to be an independent) D'Eau Claire
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]
> On Behalf Of Geri
> Sent: Thursday, December 13, 2007 3:22 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A Different Christmas Poem
>
>
> Yes, I recall that, too: the messing around with the overseas ballots
> back then.  I find it heartbreaking that those of honor with the
> intent to serve our USA through military duty, are doing so and
> risking all they have because of the greed and other unjust agendas of
> the war criminals we currently have in office (through a stolen
> election, no less).
>
> To me, "supporting the troops" doesn't mean saying to them "Rah, rah,
> rah!" or putting on a bumper sticker.  Maybe send them *prepared.*
> Maybe count their votes.  Maybe make darned sure they and their
> families are taken care of when they return injured and/or with PTSD.
> It's even sad that so many troops have been cut off from knowing more
> of the truth behind the whole operation.
>
> And thanks for the links, David.
>
> Geri
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "David Morelli" <jo.david at verizon.net>
> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] A Different Christmas Poem
>
>
>>
>> On Dec 12, 2007, at 1:24 PM, Geri wrote:
>>
>>> I always check things that purport to be from one of our military
>>> folks, so I found this:
>>>
>>> http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/glurge/different.asp
>>>
>>> On that page, scroll down and read the "Origins" section ---
>>> interesting & poignant background to this poem ...
>>>
>>> Geri
>>
>> Ah yes, I recall that there was some question about the validity of
>> absentee ballots from overseas posts with regard to post date.  And
>> that those ballots may have been significant to the outcome of the
>> election.
>>
>> Conservative position:
>> http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15606
>>
>> Liberal position:
>> http://www.wsws.org/articles/2001/jul2001/vote-j19.shtml
>>
>> How curious.  We would have had the disaster of 9-11 no matter who
>> was
>> President, but it is doubtful that we would have had the military
>> deaths in Iraq if Bush had lost.  And quite possibly Bush would have
>> lost Florida and the election if the military vote in Florida had
>> been counted differently, i.e. the post mark issue.
>>
>>
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