[Grovenet] Dependent or Independent? (WAS:ADifferentChristmasPoem)

Sun Dec 16 10:41:10 PST 2007

We didn't outlaw sole proprietorships. 

So why don't we structure the laws to encourage sole proprietorships over
corporations? 

People do what works best for them, whether it's a desirable carrot or a
stinging thrash from a stick. Only they're less likely to revolt going for
the carrot. 

Ron D'Eau Claire 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Geri
Sent: Sunday, December 16, 2007 10:17 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Dependent or Independent?
(WAS:ADifferentChristmasPoem)

> Maybe the issue is that we allowed for corporations. A figment of the 
> courts.

Yes, unfortunately!

Geri

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Steven" <NoSpam03 at comcast.net>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 12:40 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Dependent or Independent? (WAS:
ADifferentChristmasPoem)

> Maybe the issue is that we allowed for corporations. A figment of the 
> courts. These corporations have grown quite large and are paying for 
> these lobbyists, not wealthy folks.
> Then there is the issue of how cheap it is to buy a politician. Clinton 1
> sold our national secrets to the Chinese for about $600k. Not much when
you
> think of what they are worth. For as little as $30k, you can get special
> legislation in the state.
> But have info like Goldschmidt being a child rapist and you could have
what
> ever you wanted.
> 
> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com]On
> Behalf Of Geri
> Sent: Saturday, December 15, 2007 11:01 AM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Dependent or Independent? (WAS: A
> DifferentChristmasPoem)
> 
> 
> Wouldn't it be fun if there could be more than
> two parties (the same old ones elbowing out
> the others)?!
> 
> Pretty darn sure I'd remain an independent,
> but for most elections, I think we'd more likely
> as individuals find candidates closer to what
> we want.
> 
> I think the big lobbyists and corporate interests
> need to go ...  There are very few wealthy or
> powerful enough individuals -- only a tiny percent
> -- who can ever compete with them, and that
> leaves out most of America!  Not to mention it's
> "we the people" who are supposed to be
> represented, not "we the extreme wealthy folks."
> 
> 
> Geri
> 
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <ron at cobi.biz>
> To: "'Forest Grove local interests list'" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> Sent: Friday, December 14, 2007 11:41 AM
> Subject: [Grovenet] Dependent or Independent? (WAS: A Different
> ChristmasPoem)
> 
> 
>>I find interesting candidates in both parties. My frustration is with 
>>the  party machines, not necessarily the candidates.
>>
>> President Bush is simply the latest manifestation of their extremists 
>> controlling the Republican Party. I have a hard time taking seriously
> *any*
>> candidate that party puts forward, no matter how personally 
>> attractive, because I know that he will be controlled by the same 
>> party mob.
>>
>> But I feel that both parties are out of control: they are simply too 
>> powerful. For many years, anyone who seriously expects to be elected 
>> to
> the
>> Presidency has to join one or the other of the two parties, yet that
> person
>> is only a figurehead, controlled and directed by a hidden power
> structure
>> that we did not choose, pursuing goals they do not care to publicize.
>>
>> The very publicity that convinces the public that the lies you cited 
>> are truth has disenfranchised the voters as fast as they received 
>> their
> ballots.
>> The power centers do that using the parties as the their 'front',
> enticing
>> the public with cleverly-crafted emotional appeals the hide the 
>> truth.
>>
>> One of the great fictions of our day is that it takes a rare,
> extraordinary
>> person to be a successful President. Nonsense! If President Bush 
>> hasn't proven that wrong, everyone's blind. Indeed, they may well be 
>> blind!
>>
>> This country was founded on the idea that any educated American is
> capable
>> of handling state or national office, aided by highly-qualified 
>> experts
> of
>> their choosing. It's true that the number of well educated Americans 
>> is diminishing at an alarming rate, but we still have literally 
>> millions of well qualified people for the Presidency and every other 
>> elected office
> in
>> our land. The day that's no longer true, we no longer have a 
>> republic!
>>
>> I'm not saying that those who are running for office with either 
>> party aren't intelligent, educated and qualified to serve. I am 
>> saying that
> every
>> one of those who are running on the national tickets have a huge 
>> machine attached to them with its own agenda who we will put in power 
>> if we
> choose
>> them. That's exactly what happened when President Bush took office. I 
>> believe that it's also true with almost every other President in my 
>> lifetime.
>>
>> It's time for a revolution, not against the government established by
> our
>> founding fathers, but against the corrupt, ineffective system by 
>> which
> we
>> choose the candidates who we get to vote on to run the government.
>>
>> One simple, effective way to revolt is to stop offering our names to 
>> the political parties to use as they see fit. No matter who we may 
>> choose to vote for on election day, why allow their party to crow 
>> that we are
> among
>> their dedicated, unquestioning supporters by virtue of being a 
>> member?
>>
>> Why not register as an independent, saying "show me and I'll think 
>> about
> it"
>> when a party puts forth a candidate?
>>
>> Isn't independence what America is all about?
>>
>> As an independent, no one will suggest that you should be true to
> someone
>> else's ideals.
>>
>> All you have to do is be true to yourself.
>>
>> Ron D'Eau Claire _______________________________________________
>> GroveNet mailing list
>> GroveNet at rdrop.com
>> http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet
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