[Grovenet] Minimum Wage/China

Fri Feb 16 17:05:16 PST 2007

Yes. That's my experience too. I even gave away 1996 vintage analog cell
phone to a friend who lives in an area served by an analog system. It still
worked fine. 

The changes I've been seeing are since 2000. The new soldering issues based
on Europe's RoHS (Removal of Hazardous Substances) rules are only a couple
of years old. 

Of course, we're talking probabilities here. The "bell curve" of failures is
centered over some anticipated useful life. That means some fail sooner, and
others fail later. Some products will last decades. 

We've always analyzed product life. The changes that have come about are
that we can do it much, much better now so that few devices fail in the
first few years even though the typical life span may not be much longer!
And, of course, some products do have an expected long life. I don't know
about the auto industry from personal experience, but my impression is that
car manufactures still recognize that longevity is important to the
consumer. 

Ron D'Eau Claire 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Ed Davie
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 4:41 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Minimum Wage/China

Interesting though ... I have a microwave that I 
bought in 1989, still working like new.
Also, a "color" (had to add that, given the date) 
TV that I bought in about 1985 give or take a 
year. Still working fine. My last car, a Honda, I 
bought in 1986 and drove for 15 years. Still 
worked fine, last I knew. Sold it to a student.
Was it the period or what? Or were things just 
made better then.
Now, computers ... that's another story! I've 
probably had at least 10 since 1975.
Ed
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ron D'Eau Claire
  To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
  Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 4:23 PM
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Minimum Wage/China

  There's another less-obvious factor in the 
equation. Most consumer
  electronics today are designed to work quite 
reliably for a limited time.
  The materials used in the circuits, right down 
to the solder and soldering
  techniques employed, are designed assuming no 
one cares if most electronics
  will work after about five years since by then 
the technology will have
  advanced enough that the consumer will want a 
new unit anyway.

  When these devices fail they are virtually 
un-repairable. Replacement parts
  often are no longer available and some of the 
failures are truly
  catastrophic. For example, I just worked on a 
report about the chemicals
  used in the latest automated soldering process 
of many devices. These
  chemicals avoid solder with lead. (In Europe, 
lead-based solder is now
  banned in consumer electronics.) They work fine 
and have less potential to
  pollute if the device does end up in the land 
fill, but they don't have the
  durability of the older soldering systems. When 
they start to break down,
  virtually the entire device falls apart, 
electrically.

  The attention given to spending time and money 
building lasting products
  depends upon the presumed life. For example, a 
cell phone is almost a
  throwaway after one year, according to the 
industry. A computer should
  survive at least 5 years. A television perhaps a 
little longer.

  On the flip side the industry points out that 
they do a much, much better
  job of recycling these days. Used electronics 
are ground up, literally, the
  materials extracted and recycled into new 
products that we can buy.

  That is, if we can afford them <G>.

  Ron D'Eau Claire

  -----Original Message-----

  Katie,

  As you know well there's 4 measurement metrics 
for industry: Cost, Quality,
  Delivery & Safety.  The Safety metric is one 
most folks take as a given so
  the ones usually reported are Cost, Quality & 
Delivery.  And as I'm guessing
  you've experienced numerous times in one of your 
previous employs, the Cost
  & Quality metric usually end up on either sides 
of a balancing arm.  No
  surprise here: Cost is King.  Everybody always 
says "We need to make sure we
  put out a Quality product!"  But they don't 
speak the rest of the sentence:
  "We need to make sure we put out a Quality 
product THAT FALLS WITHIN OUR
  COST TARGETS."

  We'd all love to have those high-margin products 
that have high volume
  demand.  But I realize there's few products (new 
prescription drugs, maybe?)
  that meet the 'high margin, high demand' test. 
Instead, every mfg'er and
  retailer is locked in a vicious cost fight with 
their competitor to see who
  can reach the  bottom floor, the quickest, and 
make sure nobody else settles
  in at the bottom or establishes a basement.  :-)

  I'll agree with you that probably 99% of the 
time it's far cheaper to simply
  throw away the non-functioning product and get a 
new one.  And I don't see
  this changing anytime in our lifetime.  There 
are, of course, a few
  industries where fixing a broken unit is 
probably cheaper than purchasing
  new, like cars or iPODs, but most of the 
products are low-priced to begin
  with and continue to reduce in cost the longer 
the product's in the
  marketplace.  Almost seems like technology has 
helped to make us a MORE
  "throw-away" society.

  Allen Warren

  ----- Original Message ----
  From: allnutt <allnutt at verizon.net>
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Minimum Wage/China

  There would be a lot less plastic in the land 
fills because people would not

  buy as much stuff and wind up throwing it away 
when it had a little flaw in
  it.
  And the repair business might become profitable 
again.  Today we just throw
  stuff away and buy a new one because it is 
cheaper than having the old one
  diagnosed, let alone fixed.

  Katie

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