[Grovenet] Minimum Wage

Sat Feb 17 11:35:30 PST 2007

I agree with you both. I think it'll happen. And it'll be good for the world
community at large over time. It will reduce some of the key factors that
lead to war.   

However, looking back at how the USA (along with much of the world's
nations) has achieved a high standard of living, it's important to
understand that unless we take action - probably pretty extreme action - our
standard of living here in the USA will continue to decline. 

Yes, continue to decline. We've gotten used to it over time, but our
standard of living isn't at all what it was half a century ago. The biggest
clue to me is that back in the 50's the majority of American urban families
lived quite well in their own home on the income of one person working 40 or
50 hours a week. One parent, usually Mom, stayed home to raise kids and
handle domestic chores. They were able to enjoy a car, TV, movies, and go on
vacations.

Sure, for many folks today going on a vacation now means flying across the
country or halfway around the world or taking a fantastic cruise instead of
a road trip to the mountains or beach. Is that really a higher standard of
living? I don't think so. 

And our educational system worked better than it does today. Part of that is
the nature of our job market. Much of it is the result of choices we've made
over the past half century about our public schools. As one of those kids in
school in the 50's, I was able to go to college on what I alone could make
in a few weeks in the summer. That covered my lab fees, tuition, books and
most of my living expenses at good school. Who needed a loan when the state
of California subsidized my college education so well? I didn't. I readily
admit I was making good money, thanks to a high school system that
encouraged me to finish two years of college work while still in high
school, so the day I graduated high school I started work as an electronics
technician in the aviation industry. I wonder how many kids get that sort of
support in high school today? 

Today, as a person hiring professionals in many fields, I have found that a
bachelor's degree means the individual might be as well-qualified as a high
school or trade school graduate of half a century ago, only today's grad is
$100,000 in debt! I'm astonished at how many facts and how little education
many kids graduate from college with. I'm not blaming colleges, especially.
I'm astonished at the abysmal ignorance of so many of today's high school
grads. Today, it's ludicrous for a high school grad to expect to find a job
that will support a family, yet only half a century ago that was common. In
most areas a kid could graduate from high school a qualified graphic artist,
welder, machinist or any of a dozen other well-paying skills if he didn't
want to go to college. If he/she were going to college they'd have mastered
calculus, have a couple of years of a foreign language, a basic grounding in
political science or any of a dozen other fields depending upon their major.
Maybe my high school was not the norm, but it should have been and should be
today. 

It seems to me that those countries experiencing the fastest rise in
standard of living are those who have done the best job in education. I
don't think anyone in the 1950's would have expected that in 2000 the best
engineering/technical school in the world would be in India, while the US
leading schools like MIT would be pleased to admit most applicants who
failed to make the Indian university. The best schools are no longer
American. 

So our standard of living will continue to decline as the world's standard
of living rises. We will find parity one day. I think it's good that other
nations are doing all they can to help their citizens reach a better
standard. If we didn't have the economic disparity between the US and
Mexico, would there be an illegal immigration problem? I don't think so. 

While other countries improve their standards of living, wealthy countries
like the USA have a different challenge. How do we support what's going on
in the world while minimizing the impact on our own people? How do we
provide the best opportunities for the next generation while maintaining our
own stability and whatever economic prosperity we have? 

I submit we've done a dismal job at that. 

Many of us adults have mortgaged our future thinking debt is "normal",
buying stuff we'll discard within the decade long before we've finished
paying off the loan we took out to buy it. 

When I was younger I used to chuckle at the Tennessee Ernie song about
hauling 16 tons of number 9 coal because he should his soul to the company
store. I don't chuckle any longer. Most people I know have done just that to
buy a new car, a new wide-screen TV, go on a cruise, or just try to make
ends meet on two inadequate incomes to keep a family in shoes, clothes and
in a decent home. 

Far too many of us Americans are now spending our days hauling "16 tons of
number 9 coal..."

Ron D'Eau Claire 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Allen Warren
Sent: Saturday, February 17, 2007 9:43 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Minimum Wage

David,

Couldn't agree with you more.  That's *EXACTLY* the trend I'd like to see be
established, where the prices of foreign-made goods continue to increase
faster than the rise in prices of domestic products.  Actually, this will
happen, but in the case of China, it'll be a slow climb.

In the early 90's, mfg costs in Ireland for computer motherboards requiring
~30% manual assembly were competitive.  By the end of the decade, labor
costs had climbed so high that only fully automated product mfg had enough
margin to make it cost effective.

In Taiwan, labor costs through the early 90's were low.  Today in Taiwan for
these same products that require some manual assembly, most of the mfg'ers
build what they can used fully automated equipment and then ship to China
for the final assembly requiring human labor.

One of the best trends for the U.S., IMHO, is for the standard of living and
wages in countries like Taiwan, Malaysia, India, Vietnam, & China to
continue to increase at a faster rate than here in the U.S.  Will there ever
be parity?  I just don't know . . . too many variables to consider.  But for
now, I'd like to see a trend.

Allen Warren

----- Original Message ----
From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Friday, February 16, 2007 10:24:33 PM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Minimum Wage

On Feb 16, 2007, at 8:46 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> Can you imagine what would happen in the USA if everything made in 
> China cost at least five times what we pay today?

Yes, I can imagine what would happen.  It wouldn't necessarily lead  
to full employment, but it should reduce the outsourcing of jobs to  
"globalization".

David

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