[Grovenet] Questions About Our Intentions in Iraq...

Sun Feb 18 22:17:32 PST 2007

A-yup! I think most Americans agree on the most desired outcome. The
discussion is all about how we get from here to there or whether it's worth
getting there. We still have a significant number of Americans who think the
right course of action is to simply nuke anyone who doesn't give us what we
want.

Ron D'Eau Claire 

Ron D'Eau Claire 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Ed Davie
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 4:03 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Questions About Our Intentions in Iraq...

I like that last sentence.
Ed
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ron D'Eau Claire
  To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
  Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 3:44 PM
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Questions About Our 
Intentions in Iraq...

  I didn't mention discrepancies, Ed. You must be 
confusing posts <G>.

  We allowed the civil war to start by 
decapitating (or just hanging)the Iraqi
  government.

  I think we're responsible for stopping it.

  I agree with you about "getting out of the way". 
That's what I said (see
  below). But I don't believe that absolves us of 
the responsibility for
  rebuilding a safe, secure Iraq. After all, 
that's what we promised the Iraqi
  people when we invaded.

  Like I said, it's an opportunity for the USA to 
be a world leader rather
  than a world bully.

  Ron D'Eau Claire

  -----Original Message-----
  From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com 
[mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
  Behalf Of Ed Davie
  Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 3:01 PM
  To: Forest Grove local interests list
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Questions About Our 
Intentions in Iraq...

  Your words, not mine. A lot of discrepancies 
here.
  I don't have time to go into all of them but for
  example, the so-called insurgency appears to be
  attacking mostly their people. And whether they
  really want us to leave is debatable. As long as
  we are there they have a reason to continue the
  attacks. If we leave, who knows, they may decide
  to resolve their differences. Differences
  remaining after many centuries of "existence".
  Differences that we can't understand, much less
  even help resolve.
  We really should get out of the way. It couldn't
  make it any worse.
  Ed
    ----- Original Message ----- 
    From: Ron D'Eau Claire
    To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'
    Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 2:45 PM
    Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Questions About Our
  Intentions in Iraq...

    To answer your two questions:

    1) The government of the USA sent our armed
  forces to Iraq.

    (We can debate endlessly who within our
  government may have committed
    illegal acts in getting Congress to approve 
the
  war. Our Senators and
    Congressmen are the ones in a position to get
  answers. In terms of doing the
    right thing for the people of Iraq today, does
  why we invaded matter? If
    Saddam had stockpiles of WMD, would it have 
been
  proper for us to cart them
    off then leave the country in the hands of the
  thugs who are terrorizing the
    people there now? Most people in Iraq lived
  quite well and securely under
    Saddam's dictatorship. Those people deserve
  nothing less today. It's what we
    promised them. Do we not keep our promises?)

    2) A "defeat" is what the people perceive it 
to
  be (sort of like debating
    the meaning of "was"). I define defeat as our
  enemies getting things their
    way. In this case, the insurgency wants us to
  pack up and leave the country
    to them. If we pack up and leave, they won. 
The
  "not-winner" was defeated.
    That would be us.

    (Note that I'm not looking for the USA to step
  forward and do it alone. We
    could, but the costs might well bankrupt us 
even
  if the American people
    allowed it. It's quite possible that no US
  troops should be in the country
    today. Perhaps no non-Islamic people, troops 
or
  contractors, should be
    there. But we are responsible for what happens
  there. It's time to change
    tactics, all right. It's time to engage people
  all over the world to help
    fix the mess we made starting with the U.N. A
  prosperous, safe Iraq free of
    the insurgency, even if not under a 
"democratic"
  government, would be a
    victory for everyone except the insurgents. I
  think that if we could do such
    a thing, it'd be a victory with huge rewards 
for
  us; it'd change the USA
    from a frightening bully who threatens others 
to
  a leader among nations who
    inspires others.)

    Ron D'Eau Claire

    -----Original Message-----
    From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com
  [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
    Behalf Of Ed Davie
    Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2007 2:00 PM
    To: Forest Grove local interests list
    Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Questions About Our
  Intentions in Iraq...

    To answer that, ask how we got into Iraq?
    And what, exactly, would constitute a 
"defeat"?
    Ed

      If we leave, then, isn't that another defeat
  for
    America? Should we allow
      ourselves to be run out of Iraq?

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