[Grovenet] Who ARE "the Iraqi people?"

Mon Feb 19 13:56:07 PST 2007

That's a good overview of the mess that's existed in that part of the world
since WWI Joy.

I find it quite plausible that we'll never get the various factions to
willingly join as one "country". I have read a great deal by people who know
that part of the world (not he political pundits, but experts on middle
eastern culture) that suggests what you say may well be true. 

You wrote: As Kenny Rogers sang, "You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when
to fold 
'em, know when to walk away, know when to run..."

---------------

That's always an option. It's one that the USA has used more than once.
(Vietnam, for example.) 

It doesn't seem to me that's an option for a nation who would pretend to be
a leader among nations. It's more the choice of the nation fearful of
failure and bankruptcy. 

And that may well be the USA today. I'm sure we'll see. 

If you look back on my posts since 9/11, you'll see a consistent theme: to
"win" in reforming Iraq will take decades, at least, and involve hundreds of
thousands of people, and it may very well bankrupt us. I also noted that the
American people have a short attention span. We have a track record of not
finishing what we started unless we can do it very quickly. So, even if we
could, I doubted that we would actually reform Iraq into a democratic state.

My concerns (and objections to many proposals as described in the press)
about quitting Iraq immediately is that it's all about what we will not do,
not what we will do. Where are the calls for a multinational force to stop
the violence? Where are the calls for dialogs with the various people who
make up Iraq to determine what they want? 

Make no mistake, the violence still involves no majority in Iraq. Responding
to the insurgents as if they speak for the Iraqi people would be the same as
assuming the gangs wandering the streets during the Watts riots in L.A.
represented the people of California, or even Los Angeles! 

Yes, we can walk away, reaffirming our role as "ugly Americans". I'd like to
see us strive for something better.

Ron D'Eau Claire 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of JBlair2154 at aol.com
Sent: Monday, February 19, 2007 12:41 PM
To: grovenet at rdrop.com
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Who ARE "the Iraqi people?"

We keep talking about the Iraqis as if they were one people, but  they 
aren't. And therein lies the problem.

They are three peoples living uneasily together under one  government: the 
Sunni and Shiite Arabs, and the non-Arabic Kurds. When we  allowed Saddam to

become leader, the Sunnis were happy, but life was tentative  for the Shiite
and 
the Kurds: any one member of the those two groups could be  kidnapped, 
tortured and murdered for no reason at any time. For instance, the  Kurds
were never 
told why 5000 of them were gassed; and the father of one  Kurdish boy simply

disappeared one day...until the family was told to come pick  up his body
and 
to pay for the bullets that killed him. 
So when we invaded and toppled Saddam, the Shiites and the Kurds  were 
jubilant. The Sunnis were not. And since the Sunnis had been in power for
so long, 
they were the ones with the most money to buy additional weapons and  start 
plotting how to regain power. You can bet they had friends in other
countries, 
too, who share their ideology and hate the West enough to come into  the 
country and help. They had  no interest in a democracy; they wanted to
control the 
country again, and all of its oil fields, and they wanted to get  revenge 
against the West for destroying the government that had favored them and
against 
their long-time enemies who were celebrating the changes. No doubt they  
welcomed Al Qaeda members who were also happy with the new status quo in
Iraq:  
they could enter the country easily, fight their most hated enemies (the US
and  
allies) and recruit new terrorists. The shattered country, without  its 
feared leader (who was not considered a "good Muslim" but more of  what
Americans 
would call a religious "liberal")  had become  fertile ground for 
fundamentalist extremism to take hold. 

Our best friends in Iraq are the Kurds, of course. But they want  Kirkuk,
and 
its rich oil fields, which was historically theirs. This is why  Saddam was 
so oppressive toward them. The most obvious solution might be for us  to 
persuade the U.N. to draw boundaries and make Kurdistan a nation of its own,
with 
Kirkuk included. But Kurd territory extends into Iran and into Turkey, and  
neither of those countries want a Kurdistan nation -- esp. if it includes
the 
rich oil fields of Kirkuk. They would fear that the Kurds would also
eventually 
take over some areas they consider their own. So we would end up with  a 
good, stable MidEast ally, Kurdistan, but risk losing our long-time ally,
Turkey, 
and also making Iranians despise us even more.
It would be a new Israel-Palestine scenario, except that mostly  Muslims 
would be involved instead of Jews vs. Muslims.
All of this considered, I'm not surprised that a new, democratic  form of 
government has not taken hold in Iraq -- esp. when it is so clearly  under
U.S. 
direction. Our presence in their country has created new  friends AND new 
enemies for us and made it easier for terrorists to gain a  foothold. It's
proven 
that if we don't like the leader of a country, and it has  something we need

(such as oil) we can find an excuse to bomb their country. But  there is no 
"victory" for us there, certainly not through increased military  action.
I'd love 
to think that a six-month troop surge will enable us to kill  all the bad 
guys and help a new government get started...and since that's the  agenda,
I'll 
pray that by some miracle it works...but frankly, I'm  pessimistic. I
envision 
only continued slaughter and the spilling of even  more American blood. It's
time to put aside our nationalistic, competitive pride in  "winning" and 
admit that this war was an unwinnable mistake. We may  owe "the Iraqi
people" 
more than we can ever repay...but we can be alert to  provide small favors
to 
the right Iraqis at the right times. Our military  personnel can still be 
proud of their accomplishments, for no fault lies with  them. (And
recruiting has 
already become very difficult, so our withdrawal won't  cause any sudden
drop 
in young people signing up; in fact, it may have the  opposite effect.) 
As Kenny Rogers sang, "You gotta know when to hold 'em, know when  to fold 
'em, know when to walk away, know when to run..."

Joy

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