[Grovenet] As the spin churns . . .

Sat Feb 24 10:39:59 PST 2007

Declare a victory and get out.....

It can be viewed in various ways, but let me say this first.
I disagree with you about how many Americans care or feel a sense of 
responsibility about what is going on in Iraq.  Instead of the number being 
'a few' I think it is more accurate to say 'a lot'.
And for those who do care about innocent life and who do think that the 
estimated hundreds of thousands of civilian Iraqis killed is a significant 
number the question becomes how do we get this administration to care and 
take some responsibility?  Not an easy task by any means.

Have you ever had a boss who only liked ideas when he thought they were his 
own? Or who would only act if he would get 'credit' for the good parts but 
no blame for the bad parts?  That is what our current leader is like. He 
only talks about mistakes in the abstract, not as if there is any reality to 
them.  "IF mistakes were made, I take responsibility for them."  This is 
classic for the kind of guy who feels compelled to ACT like a leader but who 
won't really take responsibility.  Mistakes are ultimately the commanders 
fault but only if they happen.  He would have been a stronger leader to say, 
'since obviously mistakes were made, I take responsibility...' but of course 
he prefers to think that the 'if' is still in operation.

Declaring victory and getting out.  As we have seen in the last two days, 
the Brits are doing just that and Cheney is agreeing. So much agreement that 
the Brits leaving is a good sign in Cheney's eyes. Proof that victory can be 
declared. (Or at least it is important to spin it that way.)

When you have the kind of boss who only responds to declaring victory, then 
it is rational for people to declare victory in spite of any reality. 
Things have to be framed for the boss to view it as his own idea and his own 
glory to leave.  That is what faces the country right now and any talk of 
reality does absolutely no good.
Regardless of what you want to have happen in Iraq (for us to stay or for us 
to go or something in between) in order for George to listen, you have to 
pat him on the back and tell him how wonderful he is doing and slip in the 
idea of what to do next.  When he is convinced he will get a pat on the back 
for what ever he does then he will do it.

Flattery and insincerity go a long way in dealing with people like Bush. 
Tell him he is wonderful for declaring victory and switching the troops to a 
non combat role (training or intelligence or focused on Al Qaeda or whatever 
would be helpful to winding it down) and he will probably do it.  Just don't 
tell him about any mistakes.
People need to lie through their teeth and tell him he has his victory and 
lie some more to tell him how wonderful he is, then he will do what is 
necessary.
Tony Blair has always had a better handle on what was happening in Iraq and 
he has given us a golden opportunity to expand on the very rational idea of 
just declaring victory and getting out.

We can then work through the UN or humanitarian groups to rebuild Iraq so we 
fulfill our responsibility for the havoc we have created.

Katie

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Ron D'Eau Claire" <rondec at easystreet.com>
To: "'Forest Grove local interests list'" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2007 8:49 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] As the spin churns . . .

> "Declare a victory and get out. "
>
> And that's not just an empty statement in the eyes of many.
>
> I think there are four broad beliefs about the Iraqi war. Obviously some
> people ascribe to some combination of all four, others focus on just one.
>
> 1) The USA has shown that it can "kick a$$ anywhere and any time we want!"
> For those folks it is a victory. We did it. We destroyed a government and 
> a
> nation, defeating its army. We won. Now we can go home and leave the 
> country
> to the thugs and vandals who are jockeying for control. It's of no
> consequence to us.
>
> 2) The USA protected itself from an imminent attack with Saddam's WMD. It
> doesn't really matter that they weren't found. They *could* have been 
> there.
> They *could* have been moved. So it was enough that we invaded to ensure 
> the
> attack against us would not occur.
>
> 3) Iraq was somehow responsible for the 9/11 attack, and it is right and
> proper for people to seek vengeance against our attackers. (Usually 
> cloaked
> in the nice phrase: bring them to 'justice').
>
> 4) We should not have attacked at all. Our military should only be used to
> defend us after we've been attacked. As tragic as a surprise attack like 
> we
> experienced at Pearl Harbor in 1941, we should never launch a preemptive
> attack on another nation.
>
> We have satisfied three of the four of these. The fourth, those who said 
> we
> should not launch preemptive attacks, have been shouted down again and 
> again
> over the years. Iraq was no exception.
>
> Notice that missing here is anything about "bringing democracy to Iraq" or
> any acknowledgement of a responsibility to leave Iraq a better place to 
> live
> than it was under Saddam. As Joy pointed out, the President did not
> specifically say we'd do those things. There's no legal contract people 
> like
> me can enforce. It appears that relatively few Americans care or feel any
> sense of responsibility.
>
> So, I think you're right Alan. We'll leave and we'll smugly declare it a
> victory. After all, in time the region that is Iraq may again be a
> prosperous and beautiful place. But that wouldn't be the result of hard 
> work
> in the part of those "rag heads". Obviously it is our gift to them by
> deposing Saddam. And if it doesn't happen, obviously it was because those
> "rag heads" squandered the opportunity we gave them.
>
> Clearly it's a "win-win" for America.
>
> Ron D'Eau Claire
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
> Behalf Of Allen Warren
> Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2007 11:43 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: [Grovenet] As the spin churns . . .
>
>
> With the British announcement today they're starting the process of 
> reducing
> troops in Iraq, It looks like the Bush Administration is explaining the
> impending British troop reductions by taking the opportunity to use the
> advice of the late Senator George Aiken to both Presidents Johnson and 
> Nixon
> (R-Vt) during the Vietnam era: Declare a victory and get out.
>
> Vice President Cheney, in an interview in Tokyo said Britain's plans to
> withdraw about 1,600 troops from Iraq - while the United States adds more
> troops - was a positive step. "I look at it and see it is actually an
> affirmation that there are parts of Iraq where things are going pretty
> well," the vice president said.
>
> As for Cheney's assertion that the partial British pullout is a sign that
> things are going well in Iraq, Speaker Pelosi said: "If it's going so 
> well,
> we'd like to withdraw our troops as well."
>
> I'm sure Cheney will probably answer back that things in the South where 
> the
> British are stationed are going very, very well but of course where our
> American troops are stationed things aren't nearly as positive.
>
> Allen Warren
>
>
>
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