[Grovenet] War Hero or Traitor?

Sun Jan 7 16:11:34 PST 2007

I don't see it as all that much of a stretch. The President went to Congress
with his case to win their approval to invade. He had broad powers only in
the face of an actual attack. After Pearl Harbor even FDR had to go before
Congress and ask permission to attack Japan. 

Congress wanted to know why they should approve an attack upon Iraq. The
President said why: Saddam had WMD that he was preparing to use against
America and Americans. 

If it was a bluff, it's the same sort of "bluff" as someone who says he shot
an unarmed man in "self defense". 

That sort of "bluff" is a lie under oath in any sense of the word I
understand. 

The President never had the authority to lie to Congress. It seems to me
that the only question is whether he is:

1) Too dumb to realized he lied.

2) An psychopath who, like President Nixon, feels he is so important the
laws of mere men don't apply to him. 

3) A crook who has perverted his powers under the constitution.

I identified with Lt. Watabe in a very small way because, as Mr. Watabe was
enlisting in the Army I was defending the President here on Grovenet when he
was moving toward the invasion. Lots of regulars here were declaring his
whole justification a hoax. I couldn't really argue with them. I could only
say that the President had access to information we did not, and it was
incumbent upon us to trust that information. 

Although I felt compelled to support our President, I was more than a little
surprised at the vehement statements he was making about those WMD in the
face of so many world-recognized experts in arms proliferation and in Iraq
itself who disagreed with him. It was clear to me that if he was wrong, it
would take a great man to survive such a debacle in the White House and it
would take a great nation to live up to our debt to the world. If he was
wrong about the WMD it was clear that the most likely result would be that
the President, as a patriot and responsible leader, would have to "fall on
his sword" and resign the Presidency and the nation would need to gird
ourselves for decades of helping reestablish security in that part of the
world; a project that might even bankrupt us. 

Of course, the President was wrong. And he did none of those things. Instead
he behaved worse than a child who carelessly breaks a window and then tries
to pretend he broke it for a good reason, reasons that kept changing and
which became more and more ludicrous with each new story. 

And just about the time I thought it couldn't get any worse than that. Just
about the time I felt our national shame over this immature, ineffective man
in the White House must end with his term in office, the American people
stood up and re-elected him. 

Now even the people of America today shouting "Oh! We didn't do it! It's
someone else's problem. Bring our troops home! Let's pretend we didn't do
anything wrong!" 

It's too late. Those other guys who launched 9/11 know where we live. And
now we've recruited many thousands of others to join their cause. 

We can't do anything about the past. It's how we shoulder the shame and the
responsibilities in the face of whatever happens to us in the future that
will define us as a nation. And it won't be over with quickly. Much of it is
a job we've handed to our children. 

Fasten your seat belts and put your trays in the upright and locked
position. However it works out, we, and our children, may be in for a rough
ride ahead.  

Ron D'Eau Claire 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Allen Warren
Sent: Sunday, January 07, 2007 1:55 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] War Hero or Traitor?

As I read through this thread I kept thinking to myself, "Something isn't
right."  Then it hit me: I was wrestling with trying to figure out if our
legal system can objectively consider whether this war is legal or illegal.
As David pointed out, our President declared we are at war.  When Japan
attacked us in 1941, it wasn't too much of a stretch to then declare war on
Japan because of the unwarranted provocation at Pearl Harbor.  But there is
no clear-cut evidence, or at least there doesn't appear to be clear cut
evidence, that Saddam Hussein waged or supported a war against the United
States.  Bush first played the WMD hand, which turned out to be a bluff.
Then he played the terrorist hand, which also appears to be a bluff, but
evidently not to him.

This is going to be one helluva tough case.  And where as it would indeed be
great to get Bush into court as he's the one who launched the war, I know it
could never come to the point of him being subpoenaed.  

Allen Warren 

----- Original Message ----
From: David Morelli <jo.david at verizon.net>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Sunday, January 7, 2007 10:11:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] War Hero or Traitor?

On Jan 6, 2007, at 4:47 PM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

> We've beat to death the President's assertions that Saddam had WMD
> in Iraq that he intended to use against America.
>
> Here's a US Army officer who has taken action; drastic, dangerous
> action that may well land him in jail for a long time.
>
> First Lt. Ehren Watada, a 28-year-old Hawaii native, is the first
> commissioned officer in the U.S. to publicly refuse deployment to  
> Iraq. He announced last June his decision not to deploy on the  
> grounds the war is illegal.
>

I wonder if his lawyer has requested a disposition from this  
officer's Commander In Chief, since the invasion order originated  
directly from that source?

It would be interesting to speculate on the questions that should be  
included in that disposition.

David

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