[Grovenet] Was it Devastated or merely Decimated?

Sat Jan 27 09:32:38 PST 2007

Guilty as charged, Bud! I'd use the excuse that these messages are really a
version of "spoken" English, but I must confess that a dangling "on" doesn't
grate on me like a dangling "at" (e.g. "Where are you at?")

So I have no excuse. 

I'm not trying to turn the tide of public opinion, but simply trying to come
to grips with the reality that my nicely ordered world keeps changing
(Grrrr...) Sometimes I feel decimated to the point of being devastated (or
was that the other way around?)

Ron D'Eau Claire  

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Meredith Bliss
Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 10:28 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Was it Devastated or merely Decimated?

Yes, I think usage 3b is the most common now days, do you really find that 
irritating? You'd rather use the seemingly archaic definition of reduce by 
one in ten?

And my apologies for not being more specific, I was referring to your use of

the dangling preposition "on" in "one we can weigh in on." Strunk & White
say 
that "years ago, students were warned not to end a sentence in a 
preposition ...." Perhaps that was when "decimate" was only used to mean 
"reduce by one in ten." Now Strunk & White urge us to use our ear, but it 
still sounds dissonant to me. Sorry.

On Friday 26 January 2007 21:21, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> I use the references my editors use, such as the Merriam-Webster or 
> the American Heritage Dictionary or which defines decimate both ways, 
> as I noted.
>
> For example M-W says:
>
> 1 : to select by lot and kill every tenth man of
> 2 : to exact a tax of 10 percent from <poor as a decimated Cavalier -- 
> John
> Dryden>
> 3 a : to reduce drastically especially in number <cholera decimated 
> the
> population> b : to cause great destruction or harm to <firebombs 
> population> decimated
> the city> <an industry decimated by recession>
>
> The OED does show the change in usage, defining decimate as  "1 kill 
> or destroy a large proportion of. 2 drastically reduce the strength 
> of"
>
> My point is that the meaning is being changed by common usage from "to 
> reduce by 1/10th" to "destroy". My example is what was well understood 
> only a few years ago, but which is now becoming the less common usage. 
> Your comments and my short-form OED seem to support that change. With 
> the OED taking the conservative "middle ground" of current usage, as 
> is usual. I haven't had an editor who used and OED one in many years. 
> The OED seems to be the choice of academicians and not the ordinary 
> working folk <G>.
>
> "weigh in": to balance in the mind in order to make a choice.
>
> Ron D'Eau Claire
>
>
>
>
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] 
> On Behalf Of Meredith Bliss
> Sent: Friday, January 26, 2007 8:36 PM
> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Was it Devastated or merely Decimated?
>
>
> I beg to differ, Ron, as usual. Most sources do indeed reference the 
> Roman army as the source of the meaning, "to reduce by one tenth," but 
> the normal extension of that usage in modern times has been to refer 
> to a more general drastic reduction in numbers, usually of people. I 
> doubt the monetary usage to which you refer is very common ;-) Nor is 
> the strict interpretation to which you cling. I really do need to get 
> a copy of the OED ...
>
> On the other hand, "devastate" is normally used to refer to 
> non-numeric effects, i.e., you can decimate a group by killing many of 
> its members, or you can devastate them by destroying their possessions 
> ....
>
> And speaking of usage ... "weigh in on" ... really?
>
> On Friday 26 January 2007 15:47, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:
> > Okay, ladies and gents, here's one we can weigh in on without 
> > getting too "hot under the collar" (I hope).
> >
> > I'm a writer. I mess with words every day. So the deliberate misuse 
> > of words is, to me, like the avid bicycler who gets cut off by a 
> > careless automobile driver. It's unnerving and irritating.
> >
> > I'm hearing "decimated" used more and more in a context that 
> > suggests the writer meant something was "utterly destroyed". That 
> > is, it's used as a synonym for "devastated".
> >
> > Of course, they do *not* mean anything like the same thing. 
> > "Decimate" means to reduce by 1/10th!(1)
> >
> > If I 'decimate' a $10 bill, I have $9 left.
> >
> > If I 'devastate' or 'destroy' a $10 bill, I don't have anything 
> > left.
> >
> > However, the illiterati are so pervasive they seem to be changing 
> > the meaning of decimate! Even some dictionaries now give both 
> > contradictory meanings ("to reduce by 1/10" and "to destroy").
> >
> > Okay, so what other abuses and misuses of words grate on you folks 
> > out there? Got one? Sound off! We can agonize or argue about it 
> > without fear of causing a national revolt or destroying the 
> > environment! (Well, maybe putting a dent our linguistic environment, 
> > but the polluters have already done that with their use of words 
> > like decimate).
> >
> >
> > Ron D'Eau Claire
> >
> >
> > (1) The story goes that 'decimate' was invented in ancient Rome as a 
> > disciplinary technique for soldiers. If a group failed to perform as 
> > desired, one in ten would be chosen at random for punishment. That 
> > would be "decimating" the troop. One legend says that in extreme 
> > cases the soldiers would be lined up  at the edge of a cliff. The 
> > commander would walk along the line counting, 1...2...3...4...5 and 
> > when he reached 10 that soldier was pushed to his death. This went 
> > on for the total length of the troop standing there. It made the 
> > punishment personal and obvious without too seriously reducing the 
> > strength of the troop.
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > GroveNet mailing list
> > GroveNet at rdrop.com http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet

-- 
----------------------------------------
Just happy to be here, but speaking 
only for myself!
Meredith Bliss --- www.rdrop.com/~mbliss
----------------------------------------
_______________________________________________
GroveNet mailing list
GroveNet at rdrop.com http://www.rdrop.com/mailman/listinfo/grovenet