[Grovenet] Seeking advise on problem with neighbors who smoke

Wed Jun 13 14:25:52 PDT 2007

Whenever I'm faced with a problem in human relations, I apply a two basic
principles:

1) Decide what I need to be happy, understanding that others have rights
too. 

2) Take all reasonable precautions to avoid raising tensions between the
parties. It seems to me that President Bush is about the only person I know
in the USA who thinks ratcheting up tensions yields peaceful solutions in
human relationships (although only a few years ago about half of the voters
agreed with him, so I'm not surprised at the "F*** you" reaction you got).
For some people, merely raising your voice as needed to speak over a
distance is highly irritating. Face-to-face conversation in low tones is
much more effective. Even people who are highly confrontational often back
down when the person speaking with them is standing 3 feet away and looking
them in the eye. I've done my share of apartment dwelling and always applied
the same preventative measures there I do in my own home: I make sure I've
introduced myself to my neighbors *before* any issues that might require
negotiation come up. In that introduction I offer any help I might be able
to provide as a neighbor, and I stand behind that. Then, if a potential
problem arises, I can tap on their door (I avoid phone calls) so I can say,
"Hi! Remember me? I'm you neighbor,.... I wonder if you could help me with
something..." and then lay out the situation based on my having given a lot
of thought to item 1. Unfortunately, it's too late to make a lot of use of
this approach for you right now, but if you feel safe talking to them
face-to-face, I'd recommend a personal call to ask them if they can help you
with *your* problem with the smoke. 

I agree with those who say to approach the landlord, assuming you don't feel
comfortable talking with the neighbors directly or doing so fails to yield
the results needed by number 1, above. Again, do it in exactly the same way:
You are faced with an intractable problem and are asking the landlord for
his/her help. 

As Ed suggested, you can also move. And be aware that if you're on a
month-to-month rental the landlord has the right to serve you 30-days notice
to move for any reason or not reason at all, just as you have the right to
terminate your tenancy with 30 days notice (there are some rare exceptions
for certain people in certain government programs, but don't count on
finding one if you don't know about it already). If you have a lease, you
have some rights and obligations month-to-month renters don't: you have a
right to occupy the property for the term of the lease and you have to
obligation to care for the property and  pay the lease payments. The
landlord can't arbitrarily terminate the lease without paying certain
damages, just as you can't do the same.

So, if you're renting month-to-month, complaining could result in a notice
to quit the property in 30 days if the landlord sympathizes with the smoking
tenants!

Smoking laws have grown tighter in Oregon. It is possible that it is now
illegal for anyone to smoke in a manner that allows their second-hand smoke
to enter your dwelling, just as people in the workplace are protected from
such smoke. You'd need some legal advice about that. I suggest trying Sandy
Thiele-Cirka, Legislative Committee Services, 503-986-1286 for questions
about current Oregon law. 

You might also consult an attorney. There's a principle called your "right
to quiet enjoyment" of the premises, including an apartment which you are
renting. As the adjective suggests, it was probably originally an anti-noise
issue, but I've seen it applied in legal action for all manner of situations
to stop certain acts of others who deprive you of comfortable use of your
property. Oregon, like many (if not all) states now recognizes tobacco smoke
as a dangerous carcinogen that is highly detrimental to your health. Your
neighbors might as well be pumping toxic gas into your apartment. 

A consult with an attorney need not be expensive. Call the Oregon State Bar
offices and tell them you'd like a referral. They will take some information
and connect you with an attorney who works in your area of concern who will
talk with you in a brief interview to determine whether pursuing a legal
option has obvious merit and, if so, give you an idea what it may cost. Of
course, you can contact Bob Browning here in Forest Grove who has a lot of
experience in real estate issues.

Again, whatever you do, I recommend you maintain a quiet, respectful
demeanor. As Teddy Roosevelt counseled, "Speak softly and carry a big
stick". The above advice is for you to determine just how big of a "stick"
you can find before proceeding if none of your actions yields the results
you need. Remember that in any negotiation you will need to enter into a
"give and take". That's why it's so important to do No. 1 *first* so you
know what you can negotiate away and what you cannot. You already did some
of that in your willingness to close your door if they want to smoke. I'd
first look for a way to have the door open (after all, they might say "We'll
be smoking today. Be sure not to open your door until tomorrow, unless we
call you about smoking tomorrow! <G>). Understanding what's reasonable takes
some thought and probably some consultation with others. 

And, as President Bush has shown us, it does no good at all to start a war,
whether it's between neighbors in an apartment or between nations in the
world. All a war does is interrupt everything else you're trying to do with
your life, threaten your security and well-being and that of our
adversaries, cost you a lot of money, and leave a shambles behind when you
finally call it quits. Contrary to the popular myth, no one has ever won a
war, if winning is defined as securing the peaceful coexistence and respect
of neighbors. Always in war the number of losers equals the number of
combatants. 

If you truly adopt the above approach you can't lose. You might end up
moving, but you'll know why and what to look for elsewhere. And you might
find that you become a stronger, more positive force in the lives of your
neighbors, your landlords and well as your own.

Life throws "learning experiences" at us constantly. Seldom do we get to
chose them. That's why my favorite line in the "Sound of Music" is when
Maria approaches the Von Trapp residence gate for the first time, looks up
at the imposing home, reflects on the quiet, safe life in the convent she
left behind and whispers that beautiful little prayer, "Oh, help!" 

We all need it. 

Ron D'Eau Claire 

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Alana Graham
Sent: Wednesday, June 13, 2007 8:35 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: [Grovenet] Seeking advise on problem with neighbors who smoke

You are all ethical and smart people so I wonder if
any of you might have some suggestions for a problem
my husband and I are having with our downstairs
neighbors.

We live upstairs and have a porch and our glass door
opens onto the porch and is the main way to get fresh
air into our living room and kitchen.  In order to
protect their little daughter's health, our neighbors downstairs smoke on
their porch.  All their smoke blows straight up into our apartment where we
either get to breath it or close the porch door.  

We have asked them to please let us know when they are
about to smoke on the porch by just yelling up to us
so we can close our door and then giving us a quick
call when they are done so we can open it again.
Or to smoke out at the front of the building. OR ?????

Last night our requests were greeted by "F*** you" and
"you can't tell us what to do."

Anyone have any suggestions for solutions?  Do we try
to work this out ourselves or call the landlady?  Is
there legal action we can take?  

Any advise is cheerfully accepted.

Alana

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