[Grovenet] Is VP Cheney Next?

Fri Mar 9 09:24:32 PST 2007

Good point Alan, but not a practical one I think. We *never* know exactly
what the Chief Executive is going to do once in office because, like us, the
candidate cannot know exactly what they will find there. I think it's
self-defeating to try to belabor that issue when choosing a President. That
isn't a job assembling widgets on an assembly line. It is, literally, a job
of making history, of doing things that have never been done in just that
way before that will affect our fortunes and those of our neighbors for
decades to come. Never has that been demonstrated so clearly, in a negative
way, than by President Bush over the past several years. 

I look for a track record indicating how the candidate might behave under
the various circumstances involved in the job such as how he/she will behave
under stress, fulfill commitments and handle diplomacy, etc. Congress can
ignore any legislative demands the President chooses to make, but Congress
has very limited control over many other decisions the President might make.
They, and we, must trust that what he's saying is correct. 

Then we turn the President loose to do the job within the constraints laid
down by the Constitution, and we're tearing that Constitution to shreds if
we allow any official to violate its terms. 

It's not the President, our Army or the Congress who keep us "safe" and
provides the basis for thriving in the future, its our Constitution and the
whole confusing, often absurd and complicated pile of laws that have been
enacted under its provisions. If we don't take care of them, manage them,
follow them and use them, our nation passes into history. 

Yes, we're in a tender, perhaps dangerous, situation today as we consider
what the Executive Branch might do next. The reason we're here is that two
or three years ago too many members of Congress threw up their hands and put
their party before their country. They refused to question whether the
President was serving honestly under the Constitution and used their
combined influence to stop any further inquiry. I consider those members of
Congress not much better than Osama Bin Ladin or any other enemy of our
country. 

No one can be above the law.

That's how we got here. Whether we're in a deeper mess tomorrow depends upon
what we do today.  

Ron D'Eau Claire

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of Meredith Bliss
Sent: Thursday, March 08, 2007 8:57 PM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Is VP Cheney Next?

Well, I wasn't going to belabor the point, but there are some interesting 
ramifications to the incident.Haig's bold assertion of being "in charge" and

his display of total panic could well have been interpreted by the Soviets
at 
this peak of the Cold War as a bungled military coup, and a golden 
opportunity for them to do things they might have hesitated to do otherwise.

It is also a prime example of the best and worst of the workings of the 
military mentality: making swift decisions regardless of factual support. In

this context, it could have been extremely dangerous as suggested above.

On Wednesday 07 March 2007 19:14, Steven wrote:
> Al's comments need to be taken in context of the question and his full 
> response. In the heat of the moment, he could have described it 
> better, but he wasn't taking control of the office of the president.
>
> "Constitutionally, gentlemen, you have the president, the vice 
> president and the secretary of state, in that order, and should the 
> president decide he wants to transfer the helm to the vice president, 
> he will do so. As for now, I'm in control here, in the White House, 
> pending the return of the vice president and in close touch with him. 
> If something came up, I would check with him, of course."
>
> He was wrong in jumping over the leaders in the congress. He later 
> explained.
>
> "I wasn't talking about transition. I was talking about the executive 
> branch, who is running the government. That was the question asked. It 
> was not, 'who is in line should the President die?"
>
> Meredith Bliss wrote:
> > Those thoughts clearly didn't do much for JFK ;-) Some of us thought 
> > his choice for VP was good life insurance ... clearly we were wrong. 
> > It also brings to mind Alexander Haig's response when Pres. Reagan 
> > was shot, in total panic he sought to reassure the nation and in so 
> > doing displayed his total ignorance of the line of succession. Ah, 
> > well, another bit of irrelevant trivia.
> >
> > On Wednesday 07 March 2007 16:54, Allen Warren wrote:
> >> I apologize for not being clear in my response.
> >>
> >> I did understand the succession path when I wrote my response.  I 
> >> was trying to focus more on the hope and prayer that those 
> >> considering starting impeachment proceedings take that Long View of 
> >> what the future might look like with each of the potential 
> >> successors in the Driver's seat.
> >>
> >> Allen Warren
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----
> >> From: Ron D'Eau Claire <rondec at easystreet.com>
> >> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2007 4:41:57 PM
> >> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Is VP Cheney Next?
> >>
> >>
> >> But the USA is not Iraq.
> >>
> >> Since the Presidential Succession Act of 1947, if they were removed 
> >> as a 'set' or if the President failed to appoint a VP before being 
> >> removed, Speaker of the House Nancy Pelosi would take over. If 
> >> something happened to Ms. Pelosi, Senator Robert Byrd, the 
> >> President Pro Tempore of the Senate is next in line, followed by 
> >> Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice. There are at least another 
> >> dozen people in line behind her should the worst happen, so the 
> >> idea that we'd be without a Chief Executive for the remainder of 
> >> the present term would require the most extreme situation 
> >> imaginable.
> >>
> >> Ron D'Eau Claire
> >>
> >>
> >> -----Original Message-----
> >> From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com 
> >> [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On Behalf Of Allen Warren
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 07, 2007 4:25 PM
> >> To: Forest Grove local interests list
> >> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Is VP Cheney Next?
> >>
> >>
> >> Personally, before I would consider thoughts of removing Cheney 
> >> first and possibly Bush second, I'd want to first review the 
> >> scenarios of what would happen & what could be plans for a change 
> >> in both the President and Vice-President.  It wasn't that long ago 
> >> where a campaign was completed that removed the leader of a certain 
> >> country yet it became painfully apparent very quickly the planning 
> >> only focused on removal of that leader and not the options/plans on 
> >> what to do after the leader was removed from power.  And yes, I'm 
> >> talking about our current Administration only planning for the 
> >> overthrow of Saddam Hussein and not necessarily what to do after. 
> >> Or at least it seems to me that's what was and was not planned.
> >>
> >> And I used to fall into the trap of focusing on the task or view at 
> >> hand until a wise former manager said one day, "have you considered 
> >> what could transpire after you complete that project campaign?"  He 
> >> then peppered me with question after question after question until 
> >> I felt overwhelmed.  But it did make me think.  And that's when 
> >> this manager then handed me an excellent book by Peter Schwartz 
> >> titled "The Art of the Long View: Planning for the Future in an 
> >> Uncertain World".
> >>
> >> Feels like this is one of those times in History we could really 
> >> use a Visionary Leader in Government.
> >>
> >> Allen Warren
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message ----
> >> From: Ron D'Eau Claire <rondec at easystreet.com>
> >> To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
> >> Sent: Wednesday, March 7, 2007 3:27:19 PM
> >> Subject: [Grovenet] Is VP Cheney Next?
> >>
> >>
> >> WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The White House offered support on Wednesday 
> >> for Vice President Dick Cheney, a powerful proponent of the Iraq 
> >> war, after the conviction of his top aide dealt a fresh blow to 
> >> Cheney's political reputation and raised new questions about his 
> >> influence.
> >>
> >> The trial of Lewis "Scooter" Libby showed Cheney, often portrayed 
> >> by critics as the shadowy Darth Vader behind the war in Iraq, was 
> >> deeply involved in an effort to discredit a critic of the 
> >> administration's prewar intelligence.
> >>
> >> Libby's conviction on perjury and obstruction of justice charges 
> >> placed Cheney squarely in the center of a new political storm....
> >>
> >> http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070307/ts_nm/usa_cheney_dc_1
> >>
> >> --------------------
> >>
> >> If VP Cheney were to fall, I'd hope to see the President next.
> >>
> >> As a strong proponent for fixing our mess in Iraq, I have to ask 
> >> myself if I'd support impeaching the VP and President if it meant a 
> >> hasty troop pullout leaving Iraq to the insurgents.
> >>
> >> I think I would. Hopefully we could return to the idea of helping 
> >> Iraq recover once we had a trustworthy, functioning executive 
> >> branch in the USA again, but it seems to me that anything we do 
> >> right now will be only what we do right by accident.
> >>
> >> That's not good enough by far.
> >>
> >> Ron D'Eau Claire
> >>
> >>
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> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> 
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-- 
----------------------------------------
Just happy to be here, but speaking 
only for myself!
Meredith Bliss --- www.rdrop.com/~mbliss
----------------------------------------

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