[Grovenet] Cheap shots -[was] first wood-stove heat ofthe season

Sat Sep 29 12:06:20 PDT 2007

I don't find attacks on people funny or desirable either, although I realize
that many do.  

We all have some serious decisions to make over the next year - those who
would like to see the whole Iraq war just "go away", those who think the
President has done exactly the right thing and should continue and those who
are searching for other options. Through it all our military is expected to
do its job perfectly and win all the battles they are sent to fight.

That particular joke was a wry statement about just how serious that
conundrum is becoming for our military commanders in the face of a growing
anti-war sentiment. 

I have a sign over my desk. It says "Believing is Seeing". Yes, it's an
obvious twist of the old one-liner, and I think it is true. Part of the
human condition is to see what we believe is there. In this case, some saw
in that joke an attack on people because they believe it must be an attack
on people.

Ron D'Eau Claire  

-----Original Message-----
From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com [mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
Behalf Of muriel Gordon
Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 11:03 AM
To: Forest Grove local interests list
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Cheap shots -[was] first wood-stove heat ofthe
season

ya'll realize we attack our leaders in so many different ways that a joke
and a statement are almost one in the same nowadays. who wants to run for
office next? lol not me...
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Ron D'Eau Claire<mailto:ron at cobi.biz> 
  To: 'Forest Grove local interests list'<mailto:grovenet at rdrop.com> 
  Sent: Saturday, September 29, 2007 10:54 AM
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Cheap shots -[was] first wood-stove heat ofthe
season

  David wrote:

  Leap?  Didn't you read what you wrote?  You chose to equate them in  
  your joke.

  "Three things in this world scare me: Osama, Obama, And your mama."

  -----------------------------

  That's absurd David. For example, three things that I enjoy are a run on
the
  beach, great music and a good claret. That does not mean they have
anything
  in common except for my enjoyment of them. 

  It seems to me you have a point to make at my expense, and to do so you
  infer a meaning to my words that clearly was never there. 

  Karl Rove would love that tactic too.  

  Ron D'Eau Claire 

  -----Original Message-----
  From: grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com<mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com>
[mailto:grovenet-bounces at rdrop.com] On
  Behalf Of David Morelli
  Sent: Friday, September 28, 2007 10:04 PM
  To: Forest Grove local interests list
  Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Cheap shots -[was] first wood-stove heat ofthe
  season

  On Sep 27, 2007, at 12:20 AM, Ron D'Eau Claire wrote:

  > Whoa! That's a lot of stuff in response to a wry joke, David
  >
  > I don't think it's possible equate a vicious killer like Bin Ladin
  > with Obama or Clinton. It astonishes me that you would make such a  
  > leap.

  Leap?  Didn't you read what you wrote?  You chose to equate them in  
  your joke.

  "Three things in this world scare me: Osama, Obama, And your mama."

  We all know why we fear Osama.  What does your joke say about the  
  other two?  It equates them all as people to be feared.

  Humor is a great method of attacking people, and if they fight back  
  we can just hide behind, "What's the matter, can't you take a joke?"

  I can imagine Karl Rove writing this joke and laughing, let's put  
  Osama's name together with that uppity black Senator with the Muslim  
  name to see if we can get any of the dirt to rub off.  And then for  
  good measure, let's add in a reference to the leading Democratic  
  presidential contender that sounds like the ghetto phrase, "yo'  
  momma", to remind our white voters where her sentiments lie.  And let  
  us put the words into the mouth of an American hero to give it credence.

  >
  > But they do all have this in common: they publicly want our
  > military out of Iraq. If you think that somehow makes them in any  
  > way similar people, I suggest you are living on a quite different  
  > planet than I do That would be like equating Hitler with FDR  
  > because the both wanted to reduce poverty and unemployment for  
  > their troubled nations.

  You were the one who posted the joke.  And the joke says no such  
  thing about wanting the military out of Iraq.  It says that the new  
  head of the armed forces, who has a chest full of medals and  
  presumably is fearless, is in fact afraid of three people.

  The first name mentioned is the spokesperson for the international  
  terrorist group that attacked this country on 9-11.  The joke leaves  
  the listener to figure out why the soldier is afraid of the other  
  two.    It pushes Guilt by association, while allowing enough "wiggle  
  room" if someone calls the bluff.

  > ...
  > And that leaves Bin Ladin. Not just the military commanders, but
  > everyone needs to be concerned (perhaps even afraid) of him. I do  
  > not believe that he is a rational person who will stop terrorism  
  > just because we have pulled our troops out of Iraq.
  >
  > Ron D'Eau Claire

  Yes, that leaves Bin Ladin.  The man who represents the terrorists  
  who attacked our nation.  The man the current President promised to  
  bring to justice.  Then, after a "flip-flop", he became the man the  
  President said was unimportant.  What about Ben Ladin?  "Who?" said  
  Bush.

  The military should be far more afraid of a President who "takes his  
  eye off of the ball" when swinging the bat against terrorists in  
  Afghanistan.  And a Republican controlled Congress who assisted him  
  every inch of the way into the swamp of Iraq.  And a national policy  
  that is alienating international support for the actions of our  
  military.

  David
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