[Grovenet] Driving Help Needed

Mon Jan 14 14:10:58 PST 2008

Allen,
I have to laugh. Your son sounds alot like my son, now 30 years old.It's been a very interesting ride. Raising kids continues to be an interesting experience. Nate and I get along very well. It is really good to watch him be a husband and father. Nate has an old beat up Mercedes diesel he calls a junk-yard rescue. He is determined to get it running on waste vege oil, right after he fixes the ball joint, brakes, and a multitude of other things. (this kid wasn't interested auto repair at all when he was a teen). Hang in there. Sounds to me like you're doing OK.
Tom Alexander

-- Allen Warren <osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com> wrote:
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Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 13:37:44 -0800 (PST)
From: Allen Warren <osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com>
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Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Driving Help Needed
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Steven, thank you for the Oregon code information.

Katie, as you do indeed know our son, thank you for the kind words and advice.

Alan, thank you for your suggestion of Sears Driving School.  Our son did attend driving classes prior to getting his license, but we're seriously considering if he needs remedial training.

Once again I'm reminded of how no matter what I write in an email, it can never come close to conveying the same message delivered in a face-to-face conversation.

The incident that occurred last evening definitely & immediately shocked & scared my wife and I.  It was all we could do not to scream at the top of our lungs at him.  That's why I wrote "After my heart rate and blood pressure neared their normal levels . . .".  And that's also why we immediately took our son's drivers license from him.  We agree he's not showing he deserves the privelege of driving.  We were extremely lucky that conditions were as they were last evening, i.e. we were stopped at the signal, virtually no traffic, no pouring rain, nobody approaching the intersection from behind us, etc., else I shudder to think of all the dangerous, and deadly, outcomes that could've occurred.

Even though I've been legally driving for over 31 years, I don't think in my first 6 months of getting my license I would've considered it sensible to do what our son did.  But let's face it: we're all wired a little differently.  When the Good Lord gave our son a brain he must've stuffed it so full of intelligence that there was little room left for common sense.  The boy is intelligent as hell but it's incidents like last night that I'll still be saying to myself "What in HELL was he thinking??!!" until the day I die.  His passion and caring are so great that they sometimes overwhelm common sense, like last night, for instance.  Our son wants to get an old diesel engine car (i.e. Mercedes) so he can first run it on bio-diesel and eventually convert it to run on waste vegetable oil.  His passion for conservation totally beat up on and overruled his common sense last night.  And that's why my wife and I are here to make sure he understands he's wrong and
explain to our son why he's wrong, unlike my father who would've first said, "It's common sense", followed by a "Because I said so" if I pressed the issue further by asking something like, "But why is it wrong?"

This particular child of ours doesn't argue or defy us as a rebellious act.  His arguing is all about expressing his thoughts and opinions while trying to find the truth.  Like many teenagers, he thinks he's much, much older and wiser than 16.  I know I was a pain in the butt to my parents because I'm sure I knew everything there was to know when I was age 16.  But again, our son's arguing is not malicious.  It's all about getting at the truth.  Is it any wonder we think an excellent profession for him someday would be as a legal investigator or forensic scientist or lawyer?

My intent in posting to Grovenet was to get information and help.  I very much appreciate those who responded by giving good information and helpful feedback.

Allen Warren

----- Original Message ----
From: Steve Jerrett <stevedj at teleport.com>
To: Forest Grove local interests list <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 11:37:55 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Driving Help Needed

Katie,

I appreciate the advice on teen driving instruction.

I have been instructing my children for 10 years. They made their share of
'learning mistakes' and I did my share of correction. I would always discuss
the error and made it quite clear that a responsibility as serious as
driving was not open to much debate and interpretation. Any dissent would
lead to a temporary suspension  of privileges. It is a one-sided issue by
design. Driving a motor vehicle is not the correct avenue to let an
emotionally or intellectually immature person  "find themselves." There are
plenty of non life threatening issues that are appropriate.

I did not recommend that Allen pull his license or permit, but recommended a
parental suspension as long as his  son continues to argue or debate. While
arguing or debating may be typical behavior for many teens, it has no place
behind the wheel.

You call his logic in this instance slightly flawed. I would  call it
severely flawed. I hope that he is kept off the road pending father
maturation.

Yes, Katie, life is beautiful.  Severe injury or death in an automobile tend
to not be.

Steve

----- Original Message ----- 
From: "Katie Allnutt" <allnutt at verizon.net>
To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 10:37 AM
Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Driving Help Needed

> In defense of Allen and his son I'd like to clarify that he is in the
> learning stage and this is a perfect example of how kids learn to
> drive.  They go with their parents, make a 'learning' mistake, get
> corrected by the parent and go on.
> He doesn't need to have his license or permit pulled, he just needs
> to be corrected.
> Even though Allen says he continued to argue, that is typical for
> kids to do even when they agree with what the parent is saying.
>
> From my interactions with this kid in the neighborhood and school,
> he is a quick learner, he cares about doing things right (he was
> attempting to save gas which is a good goal and he had some logic
> behind his actions -he was under lights - even if it was slightly
> flawed logic), and from what I have seen he would not recklessly
> endanger himself or others.  In other words he is a good kid and he
> is learning.  Life is beautiful.
>
> Katie
>
>
> On Jan 14, 2008, at 10:13 AM, Steve Jerrett wrote:
>
>> Allen,
>>
>>
>> Does he have his license yet?
>>
>> If so, I would seriously consider suspending his driving
>> privileges. If he
>> makes those kinds of decisions with you in the car, who knows what
>> he does
>> if you are not there?
>>
>> Why are you debating with him?  Inform him that he not only needs
>> to follow
>> the State Motor Vehicle Laws but your rules also. If he wants to
>> make up his
>> own rules, he needs to do so when he turns 21 with his own car and
>> insurance
>> policy. It is your responsibility to ensure that he is capable of
>> driving
>> without undue risk to the safety of himself and others.
>>
>>
>> Steve
>>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "+rlo" <rlo42 at yahoo.com>
>> To: "Forest Grove local interests list" <grovenet at rdrop.com>
>> Sent: Monday, January 14, 2008 9:19 AM
>> Subject: Re: [Grovenet] Driving Help Needed
>>
>>
>>> Again, another example of idiotic thoughts. This scares me! It
>>> doesn't
>>> matter if it's against the law or not...it is certainly against
>>> the law of
>>> common sense!
>>>
>>> Allen Warren <osubuckeye59 at yahoo.com> wrote:  Last evening
>>> approximately
>>> 9:00 PM I was traveling north on Highway 47 with my 16-year old son
>>> driving, approaching the intersection at Highway 8. Approximately 100
>>> yards from the traffic signal the light changed to red. After
>>> stopping for
>>> the signal, my son put the drive gear in Park and turned off the
>>> car. It's
>>> important to note that when the motor is turned off the computer
>>> automatically turns off the lights.
>>>
>>> In a panic I asked, "what's wrong? why did you turn off the
>>> car?!". His
>>> reply: "Since we're going to be sitting here for awhile I wanted
>>> to save
>>> gas so I turned off the car." As you might expect, I told him to
>>> immediately start the car and turn the lights on.
>>>
>>> After my heart rate and blood pressure neared their normal levels, I
>>> informed my son that for the very short period of time we would be
>>> waiting
>>> for the traffic signal to turn green, we would actually use a
>>> little more
>>> fuel and it would be an extra load on the car's system to restart vs.
>>> sitting idling. I also informed my son that not only was it *NOT*
>>> safe to
>>> sit in a parked car with headlights off in a traffic lane at night
>>> but
>>> that I believed it to be against Oregon driving laws.
>>>
>>> My son was open to the potential of the no-real gas/energy savings
>>> answer
>>> being true (but still debated, as is normal for him) but argued that
>>> turning off the vehicle and sitting there in the dark was *NOT*
>>> unsafe as
>>> he said it was a well-lit area, and he also argued it wouldn't be a
>>> traffic violation. I argued it was unsafe because even though it was
>>> indeed a well-lit area and we were stopped at a red light signal,
>>> we were
>>> sitting in a car, in a traffic lane, with no lights on at night. I
>>> also
>>> informed him that unless the car was disabled and could not safely be
>>> moved to the side and off the roadway, deliberately parking a car
>>> in a
>>> traffic lane was a violation. He continued to argue his point this
>>> morning.
>>>
>>> I've looked on the DMV website and can't find actual text validating
>>> either of our positions. Does anyone know if what occurred last
>>> evening
>>> would be considered a violation under Oregon Motor Vehicle driving
>>> laws?
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for your help,
>>>
>>> Allen Warren
>>>
>>>
>>> _____________________________________________________________________
>>> _______________
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>>
>>
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